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Thread: Lion Air

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
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    Melbourne
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    634
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Jars View Post
    Itís an interactive program on the aircraft systems which I (and thousands of B737 pilots) use to supplement the Boeing Vol 2 (and other) manuals into one simple information guide. Essentially it brings the information from various parts of the manuals together in one place. It was created by a pilot with many years experience (and extensive knowledge) on type.

    Essentially, you tap on the item and it will bring up details and schematics of the related system, which makes it a lot easier to understand.

    Itís also great to focus on particular systems in preparations for the dreaded recurrent sim check. An example follows. In the app, you just tap on any light or switch to get a full rundown of the item. Beats going from book to book to book Lion Air

    Interesting, basically an interactive manual I really like it.
    Looking at that next graphic it's definitely from the sim, it's used worldwide so dosnt surprise me that they would use the same graphics. It would definitely help new pilots stay familiar with the controls if all the graphics across the board are the same, I recognised it straight away and I've never stepped foot in B737.

    Cheers Jim

  2. #42
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    brighton, brisbane
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    19,593
    Apparently, the correct procedure wasn't in the manual.

    New Questions Swirl Over Boeing on Updated 737 Model that Crashed - The New York Times
    halfbacks were invented to stop prop forwards taking over the world.

    Sometimes courage doesnt roar, sometimes it's the little voice at the end of the day, that says " I'll try again tomorrow."

    Illegitimi non carborundum

  3. #43
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    218

    Lion Air

    Hi Bob,
    I donít have much info on the MCAS. Does it work through the stab trim, or is it a version of stick-push?

    If it runs the stab trim, MCAS intervention might present as a runaway stabiliser (memory checklist for that). Stick push? - well thatís an entirely different animal......
    Age and cunning will ALWAYS overcome youth and skill.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Central West NSW
    Posts
    21,741
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Gosnells
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    4,731
    We know the answer to the question... "How many 'hands-on' pilots are there in the Boing team that thought of, designed and signed off on that little add-on "Safety Feature"... the one that's lurking in the background even when the autopilot is turned off. ?
    Or was it driven by the Sales Dept...

    And it's not just airliners that are going overboard with computers gate-keeping between the Pilot and controlled surfaces.
    Over on this side of the island, an iron ore train decided to go for a ride, while the driver was performing a routine (visual, out of cabin) carriage check. Cause of BHP runaway train | CEO says 'systems' - Australasian Mine Safety Journal
    and, How mining company BHP remotely derailed a runaway train - Create News

    My spy in the industry speculates that "they" may have been trialling a version of (Autonomous?) driverless train software, playing catch-up with another big company that has been successfully running theirs...
    Not a Good Look when a software error takes over and buggers off with your expen$ive hardware !

    Automobiles are not immune to 'automation mishaps', but being on the ground at a slower speed helps..
    2002 Lexus LX 470 Anti-Skid Engage: My Lexus, without Warning, ... and the same model here - Lx 470 2001 skid control malfunction:The vehicle suddenly - Fixya


    Point is, it's a philosophy or 'Direction' of thinking that is driving this, - over-thinking, resulting in unexpected, obscure, UN-intended consequences.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Sydney
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    218
    Quote Originally Posted by JDNSW View Post
    I did some research today, and confIrmed it, JDNSW.

    It looks like the MCAS drives the stab trim to meet its parameters - obviously nose down.

    Boeingís copout is the Runaway Stabiliser checklist. I admit that if I saw the stab trim running nose down for an unknown reason, I would be straight into that checklist.

    Itís verging on criminal to include a totally new protection or system and not incorporate it into the manual suite for the people who operate this variant. Itís interesting that when Boeing introduced RCAS (roll protection) to the 737 fleet, there was a new section in the manuals, as well as a training module and a sequence in the simulator that needed to be completed. Someone seriously has dropped the ball here...
    Age and cunning will ALWAYS overcome youth and skill.

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