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Thread: Another take on the F-35

  1. #1
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    Another take on the F-35

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  2. #2
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    It's beyond me to judge if the F35 is worth the money, I just have to hope our boffins have the smarts to work that out. But, I did receive an E-mail from a mate titled " F35B , not just a new strike fighter, "which is interesting reading.

    " The US Navy and Marine Corps believe the F35B's main contribution to sea power may be as a stealthy airborne node within a fleet wide co-operative engagement capability. If the RAN were to have F35B's capable of embarkation in a Canberra class ship, either built [ new build] or modified for purpose the types data integration and networking capabilities would give the fleet a network-centric edge giving a single tactical picture in every ship and aircraft. Likely by 2025 its APG-81 radar will have a wide area synthetic aperture mode allowing it to scan vast areas of ocean; its passive sensors can detect targets at long range without revealing the aircrafts presence and all of its fused data can be transmitted and received via a tight beam, stealthy datalink.

    Deploying F35B's as part of a naval task force is much more than embarking an air defence fighter. As part of a digital network-enabled command system it can detect ballistic missile launches against the force, cue missile fire from an air warfare destroyer, track bombardment targets ashore and engage enemy aircraft without revealing its presence and other tasks besides, all of these simultaneously. The question is not ,should Australia have F35B's at sea, but rather could an RAN task force survive without them?"


    Good question. I hope some one in Canberra has the answer.
    halfbacks were invented to stop prop forwards taking over the world.

    Sometimes courage doesnt roar, sometimes it's the little voice at the end of the day, that says " I'll try again tomorrow."

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  3. #3
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    I have wondered the same thing myself Bob. Although I have no strategic experience it seems to me that Australia, of all nations, should focus defence around the oceans that surround us. Obviously we aren't going to be acquiring a full sized carrier any time soon, so the C.variant would be of no use to us, but the B seems to make more sense than the Air Force only A. Of course, they would require ships, but probably not straight away. However these aircraft are expected to be front line for 30+ years. Plenty of time to build or modify some ships. Maybe I'm just naive, but the Marine Corps B variant would seem a perfect fit for us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johntins View Post
    I have wondered the same thing myself Bob. Although I have no strategic experience it seems to me that Australia, of all nations, should focus defence around the oceans that surround us. Obviously we aren't going to be acquiring a full sized carrier any time soon. So the C.variant would be of no use to us, but the B seems to make more sense than the Air Force only A. Of course, they would recquire ships, but probably not straight away, however these aircraft are expected to be front line for 30+ years. Plenty of time to build or modify some ships. Maybe I'm just naive.
    Now I have been reading up on this in various magazines, and in a nutshell, this is what it boils down to.

    If it hit the fan in Asia, Australia could not cope on its own. The US may be too busy to give us the help we may need. There is a train of thought that we could go back to the future, combining the RN, Indian Navy, RAN, Canadians and Kiwi's into a Commonwealth task force. Makes sense. The RN will have magnificent aircraft carriers but no aircraft, we have no nuclear submarines but the RN has, and if NZ buys the type 26 frigate to replace the ANZACS she has now, that would be a common ship between the UK, Canada, Aus. and NZ.. The Indian and Royal Navies have signed an agreement to cover the joint development of aircraft carrier tactics including their use in sea control, and anti-submarine operations [ bought on by Chinese submarine deployments in the Indian Ocean]

    Even though our navies are a world apart, they could keep skills current by having war simulations through a secure internet, and by exchanging crews of the P-8A Poseidon , for example, to give crews wider operational experience. RAN Seahawks from 816 NAS have deployed to the UK for exercises very successfully. HMS Queen Elizabeth is deploying to the Indo Pacific in 2021, with F35B squadrons from the USMC and Britain on board. RAN F35B's could operate from the UK carriers ,and could even have a permanent flight attached , and USMC And Brit F35B's could cross deck to our Canberra class, if modified to suit. One thing I didn't know [ amongst many] is that the refuelling wharf and associated stores basin at Sembawang [ahhh, egg banjo and marty loups at Mo's, virgins corner in Nee Soon, but that's another story. ] in Singapore has been retained. A Commonwealth task force, consisting naval and air assets from the UK, India, AUS. NZ and Canada , if properly trained and exercised could be a force for good in the Indo pacific. If only.
    halfbacks were invented to stop prop forwards taking over the world.

    Sometimes courage doesnt roar, sometimes it's the little voice at the end of the day, that says " I'll try again tomorrow."

    Illegitimi non carborundum

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob10 View Post
    Now I have been reading up on this in various magazines, and in a nutshell, this is what it boils down to.

    If it hit the fan in Asia, Australia could not cope on its own. The US may be too busy to give us the help we may need.
    Amen to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob10 View Post
    There is a train of thought that we could go back to the future, combining the RN, Indian Navy, RAN, Canadians and Kiwi's into a Commonwealth task force. Makes sense. The RN will have magnificent aircraft carriers but no aircraft, we have no nuclear submarines but the RN has, and if NZ buys the type 26 frigate to replace the ANZACS she has now, that would be a common ship between the UK, Canada, Aus. and NZ.. The Indian and Royal Navies have signed an agreement to cover the joint development of aircraft carrier tactics including their use in sea control, and anti-submarine operations [ bought on by Chinese submarine deployments in the Indian Ocean]
    There is a sort of merit to this idea. We are still possibly close enough that maybe India could be a good partner. I believe they are yearning for a bigger role on the world stage, and feel rivalry towards China, at least commercially. The Poms are still a decent world force, although no real match for China, at least not on their own. Probably a match for Europe though. If it ever came to that. Probably why the EU is so scared of Brexit.

    I wouldn't count too much on NZ and Canada, however. At the risk of calling down the wrath of the moderators, Trudeau is an effete flake, and is a disgrace to the idea of world leadership. The sooner Canada wakes up to his lunacy the better. And NZ has long held policies that would seem to say that they don't care, as who would want their little islands. Hard not to agree, on the whole. Both countries seem to believe that their much larger neighbours will come through when needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob10 View Post
    Even though our navies are a world apart, they could keep skills current by having war simulations through a secure internet, and by exchanging crews of the P-8A Poseidon , for example, to give crews wider operational experience. RAN Seahawks from 816 NAS have deployed to the UK for exercises very successfully. HMS Queen Elizabeth is deploying to the Indo Pacific in 2021, with F35B squadrons from the USMC and Britain on board. RAN F35B's could operate from the UK carriers ,and could even have a permanent flight attached , and USMC And Brit F35B's could cross deck to our Canberra class, if modified to suit.
    If these nations can get over their Colonialist prejudice then it could work. I reckon India is mature enough to do so, but I'm bloody sure we aren't, not with what I see each day.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob10 View Post
    A Commonwealth task force, consisting naval and air assets from the UK, India, AUS. NZ and Canada , if properly trained and exercised could be a force for good in the Indo pacific. If only.
    Yep. Same caveat re Canada and NZ though.
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    2000 D2 TD5 Auto: Tins
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    One question I had on using the F35B as a node for fleet operations was the range and loiter time, all reports suggest the F35B doesn't have the greatest range, and fitting external tanks would negate its stealth qualities. However, the USN has an unmanned aircraft, the MQ25A, that has been designed as an aerial tanker. It is claimed to increase the range of the F35B by 150 %. The only drawback is it needs a catapult launch and arrester wire recovery. Now, the latest info on QE that I can find is its delivery to service was delayed, while a catapult and recovery system was installed. That's old news, and the UK could/would have changed their mind, due to cost. Anyway the MQ25A.


    YouTube


    The QE news. this is old news and knowing UK defence policies, could be changed by now.

    That the Queen Elizabeth, the operational carrier, will be CATOBAR with catapult and arrestor gear installed. See: pg.5 "We will fit a catapult to the operational carrier to enable it to fly a version of the Joint Strike Fighter with a longer range and able to carry more weapons. Crucially, that will allow our carrier to operate in tandem with the US and French navies, and for American and French aircraft to operate from our carrier and vice versa." and pg.23 "As currently designed, the Queen Elizabeth will not be fully interoperable with key allies, since their naval jets could not land on it. Pursuit of closer partnership is a core strategic principle for the Strategic Defence and Security Review because it is clear that the UK will in most circumstances act militarily as part of a wider coalition. We will therefore install catapult and arrestor gear. This will delay the in-service date of the new carrier from 2016 to around 2020."That the in-service date for the Queen Elizabeth is delayed from 2016 to around 2020. (See quote above.)That the current plan for the 2nd carrier is to hold it in extended readiness. However, other options are being considered. The fate of the 2nd carrier will be revisited in SDSR2015, but it will still be built. pg.23 "To provide further insurance against unpredictable changes in that strategic environment, our current plan is to hold one of the two new carriers at extended readiness. That leaves open options to rotate them, to ensure a continuous UK carrier-strike capability; or to re-generate more quickly a two-carrier strike capability. Alternatively, we might sell one of the carriers, relying on cooperation with a close ally to provide continuous carrier-strike capability. The next strategic defence and security review in 2015 will provide an opportunity to review these options as the future strategic environment develops."
    halfbacks were invented to stop prop forwards taking over the world.

    Sometimes courage doesnt roar, sometimes it's the little voice at the end of the day, that says " I'll try again tomorrow."

    Illegitimi non carborundum

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