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Thread: Airbus crashes in Pakistan " we have lost engines"

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDNSW View Post
    All of which would seem to raise some questions about PIA training?
    Possibly, John.

    I'd be keen to hear the CVR transcript. Was there a conflict between the crew? How long were they on duty prior to the prang?

    I'm really puzzled as to how they missed several procedural opportunities to fix the problem.
    Age and cunning will ALWAYS overcome youth and skill.

  2. #12
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    The descent profile of the Pakistan aircraft is in blue. The standard descent profile is shown in orange.
    101179876_2975890245813561_3293581583444869120_o.jpg

    Rates of descent of the Pakistan aircraft based on its profile. This is scary stuff, so close to the ground...
    101191421_2975890269146892_2321886881022738432_o.jpg

    They had no chance of being stable by 1000'. Why the descent profile was like this is yet to be determined.
    Age and cunning will ALWAYS overcome youth and skill.

  3. #13
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    Yes!
    John

    JDNSW
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  4. #14
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    Each operating seat had a captain in it, instead of a first officer (in the right seat). Depending on the company, was it a line captain, or a training/check captain in the right? We used to have line captains in the right seat on occasion, but (thankfully) CASA canned that a few years ago.

    What effect (if any) did that have on the flight?
    Age and cunning will ALWAYS overcome youth and skill.

  5. #15
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    It could have had a major effect - like "who is flying this plane?" or "who is in charge here?".

    Where did you get that bit of information?
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDNSW View Post
    It could have had a major effect - like "who is flying this plane?" or "who is in charge here?".

    Where did you get that bit of information?
    Through a reliable source at work.
    I don’t know about Paky practices, but even if a check captain is in the right seat, the left seat captain is pilot in command at VA.
    The only time the checky would assume command is if he went through the safety language (SOP breach) to the point of “captain, you must listen”. Then he would take control and command of the aircraft. The errant pilot would be stood down after landing, and investigated.
    Now, these countries/cultures can have issues with assuming command over a senior crew member. Many prangs have happened because of this. Let’s say there was a checky in the right, and he was pilot flying. Did the checky deviate from SOPs? Was the line captain reluctant to call the deviation for fear of causing loss of face, or worse still, being criticised at the end of the flight?
    Age and cunning will ALWAYS overcome youth and skill.

  7. #17
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    Viewing a couple of the blancolirio reviews of the crash, I noted that the gear fault "ding ding" warning sounded the same as the excessive airspeed or change in altitude alarm? Could be as simple as an airspeed alarm drowning out the gear alarm and them not realising until they planted their engines on the concrete?
    Chris


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  8. #18
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    It is possible, but unlikely. All aircraft that are fitted with EGPWS have an aural warning “TO LOW - GEAR!!” which sounds once the aircraft descends below a certain height above ground with the gear retracted or in an unsafe condition.
    In my type, a switch can be used to override this, but only when directed by a checklist addressing a gear malfunction.
    I don’t know if the A320 has a similar system. I’ll ask a friend who flies them today.
    Age and cunning will ALWAYS overcome youth and skill.

  9. #19
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    In the back of my mind is that the last words on the CVR of a Mexican airliner was "Shut up, gringo!".
    John

    JDNSW
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Jars View Post
    Was the line captain reluctant to call the deviation for fear of causing loss of face, or worse still, being criticized at the end of the flight?
    This is very real, still a big factor in Asia along with corruption and nepotism.

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