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Ah well, if you were to fly "proper" aircraft(helicopters) you can have airspeed and zero ground speed! During the Americas Cup yacht races off of Fremantle all the helicopters had to line up and hover at 1,000 ft just behind the start line. The start was into wind and by that time in the afternoon the "Fremantle Doctor" sea "breeze" was well established. I recall airspeed fluctuating around 25 to 30 knots while being stationary. [thumbsupbig]Quote:
Originally Posted by rick130
It would twist and turn like Elvis. There was an AD to strengthen the tail after a couple were lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by superquag
Spin training was NOT one of my favurite lessons to deliver in the PA38...
I trained on Tomahawks also, amongst a couple of others. Strangely enough I have a photo of it somewhere taxing past my helicopter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Jars
This particular aircraft was owned by the CFI and he would not allow spins past the incipient stage.
Actually in accident records the tail did not statistically show to be an issue. In general flying the Tomahawk was safer than a Cessna 150/2 but where accidents were the cause of spins and stalls it was many times "unsafe" than the Cessna - this is because subject to height in a Cessna if you find yourself in a spin - just taking your hands and feet off the controls it recovers itself (the fail safe position) but the Tomahawk being designed to be a spinable trainer it was deigned not to self recover [bigsad] - so required input from the pilot to recover - as a result their crash rate when doing this was much worse than equivalent Cessnas. I suspect that this was probably not in spin training but in normal solo work where trainees got themselves in stall situations and were do rough with the controls or were using ailerons to control and went into a spin - in a Cessna hands off and generally ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by superquag
Garry
Wonder if the Robin 2160 has a 'flexible' rear end.... Had a peculiar experience during spin-recovery, as rudder went iin - stick very forcibly wanted to osscilate fully DOWN then UP. did a couple of cycles before I got both hands on it.... Instructor had never seen that before. Still dunno, and stall-turns straight after went ok, so nothing bent or broken !Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Jars
- Plane still flying... [bigwhistle]
(actually, had a fun-flight in both that school's Robins... and neither has since suffered an "Unscheduled Dis-assembley", [bigwhistle] [biggrin][biggrin][biggrin] )
Edit: "... but in normal solo work where trainees got themselves in stall situations and were too rough with the controls or were using ailerons to control and went into a spin..."
Or ego / inexperience getting the better of them... as I was very much cogniszant of probably tripping me up sooner rather than later; - Hence the extra "training" with aeros, get used to seeing how thin the line betwixt Complacent Pilot and 'Oh faecal matter' pilot. Sobering.
Dead right mate, as a 17yo trainee pilot, went up solo to practice stalls a week after having learnt them with an instructor. Luckily I was 3000ft above the sea...because twice I mucked up the recovery and found myself in a spin(cessna 152). Somehow I worked out how to recover, or maybe the 152 did it for me, before I met my watery end. I had a bit of an aversion to wing-drop stalls after that though!Quote:
Originally Posted by 101RRS
Hi Garry,Quote:
Originally Posted by 101RRS
The Tomahawk did actually self-recover - it just took a few more rotations. That was the first thing the CFI taught me in instructor school. The demonstration was done from 6000' in the Sydney training area. From memory, it took over 1500' before it transitioned to a spiral dive. The recovery from that would see about a total of 2-3000' altitude loss from start to finish of the whole manoeuvre (depending on technique).
I can't compare it to the C150/152, as I have very little experience on them, and never got to spin one.
John R.
Ok didn't know that - was that before or after they changed the wing in the the early 80s because too many were crashing in spin practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Jars
Didn't mind doing aerobatics (not in a P38) but did not like doing spins so did not do them just for the fun of it.
I started in Victas, but the only aircraft I have actually spun (as far as I recall) are those, the Auster J-5F, Decathalon, and DH-82A. I may have spun the Beech-23, and possibly C-150, but I don't remember for sure.
Deleted. Double Post.