JAL Airbus A350-900 - burning

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

News this morning says that tower transcripts say the Dash8 did not have clearance to enter the runway, but the pilot (in ICU) says he did have clearance.

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I listened to the actual instruction from the tower to the Dash 8 with respect to the clearance - was intelligible - so any ones guess on what the pilot under stood - however if not clear he should have asked for a repeat.

The other airmanship aspect is that you always look at the approach when entering a runway - the airbus would have been above the surrounding lights with a dark background with landing lights on plus other lights - should have been seen. The opposite would have been the case for the airbus pilot - the airport has bright background lights and the Dash 8 would not have been obvious even with its lights on.

Horrible

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Originally Posted by 101RRS

The other airmanship aspect is that you always look at the approach when entering a runway - the airbus would have been above the surrounding lights with a dark background with landing lights on plus other lights - should have been seen. The opposite would have been the case for the airbus pilot - the airport has bright background lights and the Dash 8 would not have been obvious even with its lights on.

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Juan mentions this aspect in this vid, and he includes the ATC transcript.

https://youtu.be/U1VuXT7Twyc'si=58pOHZoyybfZtjNP

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Originally Posted by 101RRS

I listened to the actual instruction from the tower to the Dash 8 with respect to the clearance - was intelligible - so any ones guess on what the pilot under stood - however if not clear he should have asked for a repeat.
Say again, or has radio procedure become that slack?

The other airmanship aspect is that you always look at the approach when entering a runway - the airbus would have been above the surrounding lights with a dark background with landing lights on plus other lights - should have been seen. The opposite would have been the case for the airbus pilot - the airport has bright background lights and the Dash 8 would not have been obvious even with its lights on.
Visibility would be dependent upon the position and timing. The JAL pilots would be busy and justifiably assuming they were landing on a clear runway.
Was the Rescue craft still moving/entering the runway at the time of impact, or holding, awaiting take off. If the latter, the sky may have been clear when the smaller plane assumed position, without authorisation.
Either way, it would have been extremely difficult for the JAL pilots to have seen the other plane against the background.

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I wonder how good was the rescue crew's English and comprehension of, after all, they were domestic pilots.

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Originally Posted by V8Ian

I wonder how good was the rescue crew's English and comprehension of, after all, they were domestic pilots.

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It has been stated that the language in use at Haneda is English. Haneda is Japan's largest International airport ( surprised me, I though Narita was ), and aircraft crew using it would be required to be proficient in English, at least at aviation standards.

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Originally Posted by V8Ian

Apparently stop lights to prevent aircraft entering the runway, whilst live, were not working. All pilots had been advised.

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A horrible business. Was no-one watching the Ground Airport Position Radar or whatever it is called?

Also happened in the US a few years ago Small Plane on the runway & landing passenger ac "landed" on top of it. The female ATC put her hand up for not seeing the smaller ac in the distance & was confused by all the background flashing beacons.
etc.
She quit & apparently has never applied for another ATC job & who could blame her?

A point raised in Juan's last video - the copilot in the coastguard plane would have been operating the radio, with the captain flying. So a critical piece of evidence will be the cockpit voice recorder from the Dash8. - what did the copilot tell the captain?

Also, as noted above, the hold point stop lights were not working - all pilots were 'notified' of this; that is, they received several pages of information , with this in 'shorthand' as one line of this information.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

A point raised in Juan's last video - the copilot in the coastguard plane would have been operating the radio, with the captain flying. So a critical piece of evidence will be the cockpit voice recorder from the Dash8. - what did the copilot tell the captain?

Also, as noted above, the hold point stop lights were not working - all pilots were 'notified' of this; that is, they received several pages of information , with this in 'shorthand' as one line of this information.

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Not to mention "What did the Radio Officer/ Copilot reply to the tower. It was to me a very quick & garbled even to a trained ear it sounded unintelligible & impossible. It took about a 2 second message. Maybe it was to tell the tower that they were moving on to the main runway? I hope not??????

Have another listen.

Seems a lack of maintenance or lazyness or cost cutting on someones part to have those lights working maybe will find it's way into the investigation.

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Originally Posted by Tins

Juan mentions this aspect in this vid, and he includes the ATC transcript.

https://youtu.be/U1VuXT7Twyc'si=58pOHZoyybfZtjNP

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Fancy being the cleaning staff starting work that day looking out of the lunchroom window at that wreckage. "FFS Eric look what they have for us today & there was me planning on starting at the Dunnies & then doing those in the Engineering Section before knockoff, Looks like I won't see the Missus before June now" Bloody pilots!



Where's the REPO?