D4 v LC200

So what i need the D4 to do ,i am 1% of buyers,i don't think so.

Maybe the D4 update will come out without low range,as 99% of buyers don't seem to need it.

Same could be said of the RR i suppose,would save a bit of weight.

But i suppose everyone likes it to be there just in case.

Remember what happened when the CDL wasn't in the D2,there were lots of complaints & it appeared.

If LR take notice maybe the D4 update will come out with better brakes & the option of 17" rims with the 3l donk.:D:D

I can't see any benefit of 19" rims,apart from maybe looks.

As said,i am sure other markets would be complaining about this issue as well.

Why don't we have a poll,to see how many people take their D3/4's off road,or who would if they had one.That includes anything off the bitumen,beaches,dirt rds,etc,anywhere where these low profile tyres do not really suit.
Not being real computer literate,dunno how to set one up:o

Getting back to the original thrust of the thread, I have been going through the process of deciding if I should replace my Disco 2, and if so, with what. We tow a dirt road caravan with a max laden weight of 2.8 tonne and around 200 kg on the tow ball, so there are very few suitable vehicles available. The choice really came down to Disco 4, LC200, Touareg, RRS, Cherokee Limited or Audi Q7. In the end I eliminated all except the Disco 4 and LC200, either for technical, cost or personal like/dislike reasons.

The Disco 4 is a great vehicle, but in the end it just has too many shortcomings as a tug for a van our size for the places we want it to go. I specifically wanted the 3.0 in order to get the 600Nm of torque, but as has been said many times, you can not get it with smaller than 19 inch wheels, which in my opinion just do not have enough sidewall to bag on sand or absorb shock and provide grip on rocks, or to protect the rims, on remote area roads. Low profile tyres just don't suit our outback roads in my humble opinion. Then LRA advised that the structure is inadequate to use a weight distribution hitch, and that the WDH would interfere with the suspension in any event. Fitting an auxiliary battery requires moving components under the bonnet. There is no electric brake loom in the vehicle. There is an issue with LED-lit caravans. The fuel tank is way too small for the places we go, but to fit an additional tank, you also have to get a new rear bar and wheel carrier. Tyre life is reportedly very short(30,000 km has been reported.) And so on.

As one who badly wanted a Disco 4, but who also needs the vehicle to tow a largish heavy caravan off the bitumen in remote areas, I can understand why Overlander decided that the LC200 was a better buy. I reached the same conclusion and I don't like Toyotas. Having said that, I have decided that my existing 4.6 litre V8 Disco 2 (407 Nm torque) which already has adequate wheels and tyres, long range tanks, electric brakes etc represents better value for money than either, and I will probably keep it instead.

If anyone has any personal experience of the D4 (or a D3 with 19 or 20 inch wheels) towing a heavy van on outback roads which differs from my thoughts above, I would love to hear from you before I go final on my decision. Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

Cheers,

Terry

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scarry

So what i need the D4 to do ,i am 1% of buyers,i don't think so.

Maybe the D4 update will come out without low range,as 99% of buyers don't seem to need it.

Same could be said of the RR i suppose,would save a bit of weight.

But i suppose everyone likes it to be there just in case.

Remember what happened when the CDL wasn't in the D2,there were lots of complaints & it appeared.

If LR take notice maybe the D4 update will come out with better brakes & the option of 17" rims with the 3l donk.:D:D

I can't see any benefit of 19" rims,apart from maybe looks.

As said,i am sure other markets would be complaining about this issue as well.

Why don't we have a poll,to see how many people take their D3/4's off road,or who would if they had one.That includes anything off the bitumen,beaches,dirt rds,etc,anywhere where these low profile tyres do not really suit.
Not being real computer literate,dunno how to set one up:o

---

The new cayenne has no low range, its 8 spd sludge box takes care of the problem. Great idea in my opinion.

From some reports the disco is going to be replaced by a 7 seat version of the freelander (and rangie is to be based on the jaguar platform).

This is consistent with the direction taken after disco 2.

My conclusion is Land Rover is giving little emphasis to off road capability of their luxury range.

From what I can glean (no personal experience) even with disco 3, unless you have chosen the air spring option (instead of coils), the lack of ground clearance is a big handicap off road.

The way our regulations are, mods to improve off road capability of newish/future stock vehicles are severely limited - this includes fitting larger tyres (+ 15mm limit) to improve sidewall height.

Tyre technology has come a longe way and continues to change.

A lot of the posts in these threads seem to me to be more about making excuses as to why not to upgrade to a D3/4 rather than reasoned argument.

If you don't want to change cars or can't afford to then just say so. There's nothing wrong with that!

There's plenty of cockies around here who have swapped LC for D3, D4, RRS, who tow large vans and travel gravel roads daily; and none of them seem to have a problem!

If you're into extreme 4WDriving, sure 19" may be too big, but how many here actually are?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jamo

Tyre technology has come a longe way and continues to change.

A lot of the posts in these threads seem to me to be more about making excuses as to why not to upgrade to a D3/4 rather than reasoned argument.

If you don't want to change cars or can't afford to then just say so. There's nothing wrong with that!

There's plenty of cockies around here who have swapped LC for D3, D4, RRS, who tow large vans and travel gravel roads daily; and none of them seem to have a problem!

If you're into extreme 4WDriving, sure 19" may be too big, but how many here actually are?

---

Sometimes a picture can tell a 1000 words. Now I wouldn't say I was into extreme driving....but sure loved to tackle some of the harder stuff.

Now this isn't the best pic....but explains what I mean when it comes to 18's and the current range of legal tyre options. At the end of this trip the rims were hammered to pieces. On a further part of the track where it was shaly....it ripped a small hole which I found out about at 110kms an hr on the hwy. With my D2 on 16's....over same terrain....no issue at all.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...10/04/1198.jpg

The only reason I am now possibly looking at another D3 is because in the 17's the tyre options are now there....in a proper LT and with at least sidewalls of 70-75. I have seen the KM2's on an 18inch rim in original size and seen one peel off the rim...again due to low sidewalls...despite a much tougher tyre.

I think a point is being missed......and that is LR/Toyota/Nissan etc are making it harder....not easier to modify or easily take their product off road.

Regards

Stevo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jamo

Tyre technology has come a longe way and continues to change.

There's plenty of cockies around here who have swapped LC for D3, D4, RRS, who tow large vans and travel gravel roads daily; and none of them seem to have a problem!

---

Technology might change but the mathematics doesn't. A low profile tyre will always have less sidewall than a more conventional tyre: that is the whole point. Unfortunately, at least in my experience, on sand and rough roads you want more, rather than less, sidewall.

I am personally aware of some D3 owners who have had a serious problem on remote area roads, but in my post I have invited those who haven't to give me the benefit of their experience.

Has anyone tried 17 or 18 inch steel rims, as they are not as thick in material as the alloy ones? Surely some can be custom made to fit. I would love to see a d4 without a wheel so i would understand what all the fuss was about. Does anyone have any pics of the 3.0 offending calliper?

I was once able to make a 17" rim fit over a unimog 406 drum brake......now that was a bit of work.

Andy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jamo

Tyre technology has come a longe way and continues to change.

A lot of the posts in these threads seem to me to be more about making excuses as to why not to upgrade to a D3/4 rather than reasoned argument.

If you don't want to change cars or can't afford to then just say so. There's nothing wrong with that!

There's plenty of cockies around here who have swapped LC for D3, D4, RRS, who tow large vans and travel gravel roads daily; and none of them seem to have a problem!

If you're into extreme 4WDriving, sure 19" may be too big, but how many here actually are?

---

No excuses here,just reality,& for me ,funds are not an issue.

Why buy something that will not do the job, i want it to,as many others on here also are saying.

And i won't do a lot of "extreme 4wding"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stevo68

Sometimes a picture can tell a 1000 words. Now I wouldn't say I was into extreme driving....but sure loved to tackle some of the harder stuff.

Now this isn't the best pic....but explains what I mean when it comes to 18's and the current range of legal tyre options. At the end of this trip the rims were hammered to pieces. On a further part of the track where it was shaly....it ripped a small hole which I found out about at 110kms an hr on the hwy. With my D2 on 16's....over same terrain....no issue at all.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...10/04/1198.jpg

The only reason I am now possibly looking at another D3 is because in the 17's the tyre options are now there....in a proper LT and with at least sidewalls of 70-75. I have seen the KM2's on an 18inch rim in original size and seen one peel off the rim...again due to low sidewalls...despite a much tougher tyre.

I think a point is being missed......and that is LR/Toyota/Nissan etc are making it harder....not easier to modify or easily take their product off road.

Regards

Stevo

---

And how would you have been on 19"s:(:(

And i wouldn't call that extreme 4WDing.


Can someone send this thread over to LRA:D:D