Car show elitists

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Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

The HO variant may have had a doubtful claim to that but not the normal GT.

Look at their competition history.

1967, beat minis at Bathurst.
1968 got well and truly rolled by Holden Monara GTS327
1969 Holden GTS350 took 7 out of the 10 first places
1970 &1971 won Bathurst against Toranas with barely more than half the Ford's engine capacity
1972 got rolled by said Toranas
1973 Torana was winning until Doug Chivas decided he could go another lap without refuelling

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1968 302 Ford against 327 4 bolt small block Chev.
1969 only because of crap yank tyres.
1970/71 202 vs. 351, Toranas 1/2 the weight with same size tyres as Fords.
1972 As above, holden couldn't win using the equivalent size car, the HQ so they stuffed an oversize engine in an imported Vauxhall (4cyl. car) and called it the torana.
1973, phht, excuses, LOL
Regards Frank.

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Originally Posted by Sprint

tell me about it! how many "concours restorations" have you seen on series landrovers where the panels are perfectly flat and ripple/blemish free????

makes you want to take to them with a ballpein hammer!

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WTF, Why, regards Frank.

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any pics of the warrior?

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Not that he has shown me yet.

Regards Philip A

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Originally Posted by Tank

WTF, Why, regards Frank.

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so they actually resemble a series landrover as it actually rolled off the line?

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Originally Posted by Tank

1968 302 Ford against 327 4 bolt small block Chev.
1969 only because of crap yank tyres.
1970/71 202 vs. 351, Toranas 1/2 the weight with same size tyres as Fords.
1972 As above, holden couldn't win using the equivalent size car, the HQ so they stuffed an oversize engine in an imported Vauxhall (4cyl. car) and called it the torana.
1973, phht, excuses, LOL
Regards Frank.

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1969- The racing tyres on the Ford factory team cars would not fit on the privateers cars. Which meant some unhomologated modifications had been made to the factory team cars. Just as well for the Ford factory team that the tyres failed as everyone was getting ready to line up with their protest money. They could never have been declared winners. I am sure of this, I was there in the pits, and the Ford privateers were livid, and the Holden teams were chortling.

1970- Toranas had 186 engines, the 3100X prefix. Not sure now about 1971 as to whether the 202 or 3300X was in them at that stage, probably not. The 202 option in Toranas was released some time after the initial release of the LJ series in 1972. I couldn't get one in the early LJ I ordered for my mum. 1972 Bathurst GTR's with XU1 option used the 3300X for sure. Later 202's in Torana GTR used a different engine number prefix. I think the one for option XU1 was JP but don't take that as gospel. It was a marketing decision to promote the Torana that made the Torana the focus of the HDT's racing efforts, not any shortcomings of the HQ Monaro 350. HQ's were selling as fast as we could make them and the marketing and development focus went to the Torana range. A competitive Bathurst HQ 350 could have easily been homologated out of factory parts bins and the US GM Goodwrench range of performance equipment should there have been a need.

As a matter of interest to those unfamiliar with models then, the Monaro GTS350 in HK,HT, HG, and HQ ranges was a separate model, 81837, that was in regular production. It could be ordered any time simply by the dealer ticking the model box and any options required by the customer on an order form. We even used to build a few for plant stock in the more popular colour and trim combinations. Torana GTR's were likewise, model 82911, and in regular daily scheduled production and kept in plant stock. The Torana GTR with option XU1 "Special Vehicle Equipment" was built in batches of around 220 for homologation purposes to ensure updates were accepted by CAMS. Whilst theoretically XU1's were available to any dealer, we used them as bait. A dealer could have one if he also took a couple of whatever that were hanging around in plant stock. Small volume country dealers did not like this.

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Originally Posted by Sprint

so they actually resemble a series landrover as it actually rolled off the line?

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If someone wants to do up a car, any car and make it look good, i.e. better than original, what is wrong with that, seems to me that you are the snob, no offence intended, but to each his own, Regards Frank.

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Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

1969- The racing tyres on the Ford factory team cars would not fit on the privateers cars. Which meant some unhomologated modifications had been made to the factory team cars. Just as well for the Ford factory team that the tyres failed as everyone was getting ready to line up with their protest money. They could never have been declared winners. I am sure of this, I was there in the pits, and the Ford privateers were livid, and the Holden teams were chortling.

1970- Toranas had 186 engines, the 3100X prefix. Not sure now about 1971 as to whether the 202 or 3300X was in them at that stage, probably not. The 202 option in Toranas was released some time after the initial release of the LJ series in 1972. I couldn't get one in the early LJ I ordered for my mum. 1972 Bathurst GTR's with XU1 option used the 3300X for sure. Later 202's in Torana GTR used a different engine number prefix. I think the one for option XU1 was JP but don't take that as gospel. It was a marketing decision to promote the Torana that made the Torana the focus of the HDT's racing efforts, not any shortcomings of the HQ Monaro 350. HQ's were selling as fast as we could make them and the marketing and development focus went to the Torana range. A competitive Bathurst HQ 350 could have easily been homologated out of factory parts bins and the US GM Goodwrench range of performance equipment should there have been a need.

As a matter of interest to those unfamiliar with models then, the Monaro GTS350 in HK,HT, HG, and HQ ranges was a separate model, 81837, that was in regular production. It could be ordered any time simply by the dealer ticking the model box and any options required by the customer on an order form. We even used to build a few for plant stock in the more popular colour and trim combinations. Torana GTR's were likewise, model 82911, and in regular daily scheduled production and kept in plant stock. The Torana GTR with option XU1 "Special Vehicle Equipment" was built in batches of around 220 for homologation purposes to ensure updates were accepted by CAMS. Whilst theoretically XU1's were available to any dealer, we used them as bait. A dealer could have one if he also took a couple of whatever that were hanging around in plant stock. Small volume country dealers did not like this.

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If you raced a HQ around Bathust it would be ready for the scrap bin about halfway through the race, even the earlier 2 door Monaros were popping windscreens and splitting the passenger footwell floor.
Mate, my old mans HQ popped a windscreen and cracked it with a 10ft. tinny on the roofracks at 60klms/h, what was it 4 bolts in the subframe and the front guard bolts held the whole front end on, try unbolting the guards with the front jacked up, there was no way Holden could have bodged up a HQ to race at Bathurst (or anywhere else) and got it past scrutiny, Regards Frank.

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Originally Posted by Tank

If you raced a HQ around Bathust it would be ready for the scrap bin about halfway through the race, even the earlier 2 door Monaros were popping windscreens and splitting the passenger footwell floor.
Mate, my old mans HQ popped a windscreen and cracked it with a 10ft. tinny on the roofracks at 60klms/h, what was it 4 bolts in the subframe and the front guard bolts held the whole front end on, try unbolting the guards with the front jacked up, there was no way Holden could have bodged up a HQ to race at Bathurst (or anywhere else) and got it past scrutiny, Regards Frank.

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All modifications necessary to make a race car would have been homologated with CAMS by building and selling 200 or more. We are talking factory involvement not a single race car put together by a privateer. Big difference as far as engineering, design, manufacture, and budget.

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

In a similar vein to the above, my pet peeve and the reason I go to few car shows is that so many of them are fakes.


I am afraid that I cannot see the value in a base model tricked up as a rare model and am always astounded at the asking prices of Falcon 500s tricked up as GTs, and that is declared fakes.
Regards Philip A

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You mean like the base model Falcon's with GT running gear supplied to the NSW police in Cambridge Blue and black trim? Used car dealers loved to buy these at the government auctions and convert them to GT's with the aid of a wrecked Fairmont or GS pack. I drove a few up for Blair Shepherd and Bert Marwood. You could hammer them around the Putty road and up the New England flat strap and the Highway Patrols ignored you, thinking it was one of the lads in a hurry.

I recently bought a little 2 seater sports job.

When I was looking I must admit that at first , I was looking for something Pristine :rolleyes:

Then on that marque's forum someone made what I thought was a very wise statement.

" If you want something that is to be polished and admired , buy a piece of antique furntire. If you want to enjoy owning a car , buy it and drive it in the manner for which it's designers and makers intended "

Got to say that on my first club road run , I drove the hell out of it and it performed and handled magnificently.I still haven't wiped the grin off my face:D

It's no concourse job but geez it's fun.