On Afghanistan

Been reading through a couple of the longer posts

I thought the Afghan war was the Alnutabinladin war

Binladin hates us because there are Infidel troops in the Holley land Saudi Arabia

So how did this turn into a war against Afghan Taliban im still not clear on that

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Originally Posted by cartm58

In the modern history of the world there has been very little exported terrorism war into nations not involved in the combatants conflict so all the chatter from politicians and media about world terrorism threats need to be taken with dose of salt.

Australia has little chance of act of terrorism being committed by combatants from overseas more likely to be 2nd generation migrants to be the ones committing acts of violence for perceived slights on their culture race or homeland.

We have no god given right to impose our values or beliefs on other people and we seem to have forgotten that jsut because we are a so called democratic country that our model of government is applciable or suitable for anyone else in the world.

Other nations have grown up without national identies and operate on tribal clans as their sense of identity and national governments have no meaning to their lives or beliefs.

Simply put we shouldn't be in Iran or Afghanistan and not being there wouldn't raise our threat levels one iota.

We should also stop all this refugee nonsense they aren't refugees they are economic queue jumpers and we should simply adopt a policy of immediate return to point of original departure.

Australia has since Federation made the fundamental mistake of following the Imperial leader used to be England now it is Amercia if Australia wants to do something for world peace it be non aligned and work in the UN to achieve regional peace and security and have a dialogue with any country and develop trade and economic links.

Most inter country conflict will be solved by non imposition of cultural and political views and most intra country conflict will only be solved by economic fairness and education and health for all of a nation's people on a equitable and fair basis, something that cannot be achieved by the presence of Australian solidiers no matter how fine and noble a job they are doing.

We should bring our service personnel home and stop sending them on no win missions supportng bad American policy maker decisions

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wow, interesting but not deep enough, although there are land rovers there, mostly green ones...............ha ha ha:D

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Originally Posted by slug_burner

Why do people want to win? Who are you going to beat?

It is not about winning or losing, it is about stabilising things so the place has a chance of going on without becoming another failed state.

cartm58,

You missed your calling, the middle east needs you.

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Funny that was the excuse the Russians used for their foray into Afghanistan in the 1980's, on the basis of the failed State theory then nearly every country in Africa fits that criteria, PNG and Solomon Islands come close so the white man is going to intervene in all these places, we don't belong there, we shouldn't be funding the war, we shouldn't be giving corrupt politicians economic aid and political legitimacy.

But this is land rover forum, which means we should bring them all back as they aren't suitable for the task of transporting troops in country as they keep on being blown up by men in rags with mobile phones and remote detonated roadside bombs

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Originally Posted by steve_35

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So how did this turn into a war against Afghan Taliban im still not clear on that

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See my earlier post - the USA regarded the support given by the Taliban to Al Quaeda as the equivalent to a declaration of war against the USA. Australia is there as an ally of the USA.

As I said in my earlier post, this does not make it a good idea. All of history says in fact that it was a very bad idea. In contrast, while there was no real justification for the USA to invade Iraq, from a pragmatic point of view, that country has been successfully invaded many times in past history - for example, the British took it from the Turks in WW1, and the Turks in turn had occupied it for hundreds of years. So there was no good reason to expect this to be a failure, whereas all of history was saying that invasion of Afghanistan was a very bad idea.

The Russian invasion of Afghanistan has been considered to be one of the main causes of the collapse of Communism and the loss of much of the Russian empire.

John

The intervention of the "know best countries" in the "under developed" countries like not long ago in South America and now in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc reminds me when the Spanish, British, Dutch, Portuguese, French, etc etc were trying to educate other civilizations.
We know the result now........a failure.
Let them sort out their way of living and protect our territory.
We are loosing a lot of good people just to open new opportunities for the big corporations and other interests.
Just my thought :)

I will say this

Typical US start a war with a country that doesn't have an army and they still cant win

Why on earth do we follow them

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Originally Posted by JamesH

Not so long ago we could watch the news in these trouble spots and tut tut and say isn't it horrible. We could even get worked up about the (seemingly) senseless loss of life and object over dinner and a glass of wine to sending our troops to "some distant war that has nothing to do with us". But we know better now, we know now that these wars won't stay safe locked up in our TV sets, they have come out and arrived in our offices where we work and on the trains we catch to go about our peaceful business. We know there is no such thing as a "distant" war and what we are doing in the middle east isn't about about fixing a problem and then getting out. There's no getting out, there's only running away and surrendering, or seeing it through. Militant Islamic fundamantalism cannot be allowed to exist.

My inexpert guess is that this war will go on for generations and if you want to live like the way we do then you're going to have get behind our troops, really get behind them. The profession of arms and the wearing of the uniform is about the most noble and decent thing someone can do for their family, mates and country. I hope people ignore any of the recruitment stuff that doesn't say you're in it to kill directly or indirectly.

We're not doing enough or pulling our weight in the Islam versus West trouble spots of the world.

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I do not think this quite correct if you have a donkey you kick everyday ...don't be suprised if it kicks you back one day history shows a down trodden race will eventually rise up against its oppressors Afgahnistan has been pilfered by every bugger breathing no wonder they are ****ed off and all they want to do is make a buck and sell some smack to the west (now that is clever terrorism wonder how many they have taken out with smack over the last 200 years)

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Originally Posted by steve_35

I will say this

Typical US start a war with a country that doesn't have an army and they still cant win

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how much taliban powder you had today?

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Originally Posted by Chucaro

The intervention of the "know best countries" in the "under developed" countries like not long ago in South America and now in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc reminds me when the Spanish, British, Dutch, Portuguese, French, etc etc were trying to educate other civilizations.
We know the result now........a failure.
Let them sort out their way of living and protect our territory.
We are loosing a lot of good people just to open new opportunities for the big corporations and other interests.
Just my thought :)

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The world lost a lot whilst the civilised posse were going round educating and giving religion too the poor uneducated children of the world, look at the first Australians same deal take em away from their culture and you can't give it back you have a dying race that wants and doesn't want our world

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Originally Posted by incisor

how much taliban powder you had today?

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You can correct me if i am wrong

The Taliban are not an army they are religious Uni students
Alquida is not an army they are terrorists
the people that where doing all that nasty stuff in Iraq weren't an army they where just nutbags sponsored by other nutbags possibly a government


I don't see many jet fighters tanks or warships just a bunch of fools running round killing innocent people