Thread: ....and we do not have beds in hospitals

Originally Posted by JohnF

I recently heard that Australia has 3000 nurses working now in other non-medical Jobs, because they will no longer put up with how they are treated when Nursing.

Yes
Nurses are not getting paid in QLD are they..........................

We have this "Florence Nightingale" thing about nurses,,

we all expect ( and usually get) great service from nurses when we need to, but in the end they just work like the rest of us,
and the rest of us change jobs every 7 years or so,
so its not surprising there are so many in other jobs,,

oh,, and by the way,, I have one at home,,
and you know when you belt your finger with a hammer and rush inside to tell the off-duty nurse so the love and affection kicks in??

anyone else get met with laughter?

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Never let facts get in the way of a good argument...

AU has ~9.7 nurses/1000 people (2007) - up there with most developed countries.

AU wages/salaries seem quite high. A friend who is a paediatric nurse earns ~2x what she used to get in Germany.

I am not saying there aren't shortages, but we aren't doing too badly.

Ben

Not disagreeing with you!

We could have a long diatribe on this one subject, which will in turn bore the rest of the readers and some of your statement is true, however.

We have chronic shortages throughout the system which in the main has been compensated by "gazetted beds" being unavailable or closed. Meaning that patients that could be in those beds not being in hospital and this usually means elective surgery being delayed. Ever heard of people waiting a year for their hip replacement?

There are some nurses who will stay in their home country for reasons outside pay. There is also the nurses, like other young people who will have an overseas working holiday and return. Then there are a number of nurses who will go to the location in the World that is the most rewarding for them in lifestyle, pay or conditions. WE see this in the net flow of nurses from developing countries (who need their nurses most) migrating on a permanent basis to developed countries.

At present (as mentioned above) we have unavailable beds because of nurse shortages and we are unable to train and recruit new nurses into the system to cover the nurses retiring from the system so the waiting lists will only get longer. While we are developing new systems of treating patients outside hospitals and squeezing more patients through the available beds, we will never attract the global flow of nurses to Australia to fill our shortages until we pay them relatively more that other lifestyle countries are prepared to pay. Your German ex-pat paediatric nurse is exactly the example we need to attract more of.

Diana

Originally Posted by Pedro_The_Swift

<snip>
oh,, and by the way,, I have one at home,,
and you know when you belt your finger with a hammer and rush inside to tell the off-duty nurse so the love and affection kicks in??

anyone else get met with laughter?

What point are you trying to make? Do you pay her sufficient to bring her professional skills home with her?

If you had an astro-physicist at home would you expect them to solve your black hole problems for naught?

Originally Posted by richard4u2

if only immigraton spent more time on getting nurses from countries like russia or the philippines instead of putting all thier energies into catering to the ones comeing in through the back door with no skills

Ever you been treated by a Russian nurse? There are some minimum education and pharmaceutical knowledge and language abilities they need to pass first. We do have Filippino nurses working here. Nurses (registered or enrolled) do not come into the system through any door without certified education, language or other skills.

There has been a well established system in place covering the supply of doctors and nurses around the world. The first step was to establish the UK medical schools as the standard others are judged against. Then the UK schools went out and established this system in as many countries as possible.

There is still funding provided by the UK government to keep this system in place in those countries which went along with it. Now what does the UK get out of this? They have a steady stream of medical qualified people who can slot right into the system in the UK who can be sourced from around the world. Having this supply assists in keeping wages down in the UK. NHS here has the second largest work force in the world only Indian Railways employees more people. Those who graduate from these schools know they can skip the country of residence / birth and move to the UK.

Why does the UK need this? The doctors and nurses like all good profesionals attempt to limit the number of practicing members of the profession so keeping supply tight and demand high. Second reason is that as UK trained doctors and nurses graduate / reach qualified status there as offers waiting from Australia, New Zealand and Canada to move to better conditions both work / lifestyle and better pay. Too many opt to leave the UK making the shortage worse. One hospital here lost a whole ward staff in one hit who all moved to Australia.

New EU rules may though break this cycle which has seen countries training many medical people only to lose them almost straight away. Or will medical no longer be the attractive offering for them as the unstated end result will no longer be there? Will probably not though stop the departures of UK trained medical staff.

Must say though that comparing pay is only one part of the picture as nurses here have 40 days holiday and 7 to 14 days in addition to attend paid for 'conferences' which are normally somewhere warm with a beach.

The last 10 years has seen more people leave the UK than in any 10 year period for the last 200 years. Now that was in the good times ...... what will happen now that the true financial picture of the debt racked up to pay for the good times is coming out.

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Ben

There are some minimum education and pharmaceutical knowledge and language abilities they need to pass first. We do have Filippino nurses working here. Nurses (registered or enrolled) do not come into the system through any door without certified education, language or other skills.

I beg to differ Dianna, I have a nursing friend who works in a major Brisbane hospital. This hospital employs a number of nursing staff from various native LOTE/third world countries. My friend has difficulty understanding/being understood by a number of Filippino nurses, who insist on speaking their own language on shift. This has reached the point that my friend has now refused to work with two specific Filippino nurses, with whom she finds communication impossible. She has also said that this particular group do the absoloute minimum amount of work they can get away with.

Originally Posted by V8Ian

I beg to differ Dianna, I have a nursing friend who works in a major Brisbane hospital. This hospital employs a number of nursing staff from various native LOTE/third world countries. My friend has difficulty understanding/being understood by a number of Filippino nurses, who insist on speaking their own language on shift. This has reached the point that my friend has now refused to work with two specific Filippino nurses, with whom she finds communication impossible. She has also said that this particular group do the absoloute minimum amount of work they can get away with.

Maybe the QLD system is slack then - it has let in dangerously incompetent doctors after all....

However, my German friend had to sit very rigorous english exams (written and oral) - which included medical terminology, prescriptions/drugs, etc...

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Maybe the QLD system is slack then - it has let in dangerously incompetent doctors after all....

However, my German friend had to sit very rigorous english exams (written and oral) - which included medical terminology, prescriptions/drugs, etc...

I think it's the Nurses' Registration Board (?), a national, non-govt entity that issue nurses right to practice. There was a recent case of an English born nurse being refused registration until she had sat an English exam, hastily dropped once the media got the story.