Thread: WILDLY varying locker prices

Maybe the OL guy was thinking of a real slippery surfaces while cornering. Then it should probably lock in applications for what it was designed.
But I'd sure hope it doesn't lock while cornering on bitumen. Apart from being dangerous it won't be long before it's buggered, or you need new tyres.
It's my understanding auto lockers need a set amount of wheel spin before engaging, thus no planting the foot around corners in the wet of you may end up on the footpath.

Originally Posted by newhue

Maybe the OL guy was thinking of a real slippery surfaces while cornering. Then it should probably lock in applications for what it was designed.
But I'd sure hope it doesn't lock while cornering on bitumen. Apart from being dangerous it won't be long before it's buggered, or you need new tyres.
It's my understanding auto lockers need a set amount of wheel spin before engaging, thus no planting the foot around corners in the wet of you may end up on the footpath.

Not in the rear of a constant 4wd

In a rear wheel drive yea, just like an LSD.....or even an open diff.....if you practcei throttle control enough

Originally Posted by F4Phantom

I would also like to know about true tracks front and rear vs TT front and full detroit rear. There would not be a durability difference, only an off road performance difference, and given that the TT is easier on your transmission because its not a complete lock, it may be a better option.

Also its not just a matter of the detroit being clunkier or noisy, its a matter of you not being able to apply any throttle without it being locked, so in a roundabout under throttle your inside wheel will spin on the spot.

Originally Posted by newhue

Maybe the OL guy was thinking of a real slippery surfaces while cornering. Then it should probably lock in applications for what it was designed.
But I'd sure hope it doesn't lock while cornering on bitumen. Apart from being dangerous it won't be long before it's buggered, or you need new tyres.
It's my understanding auto lockers need a set amount of wheel spin before engaging, thus no planting the foot around corners in the wet of you may end up on the footpath.

It will lock under power during cornering.

Under differential wheels speed and coast conditions it unlocks but will lock if you gave it full throttle exiting a corner.

I've driven race cars with Detroits (tested, setup and raced) and the cycling between one and two wheel drive was a pain IMO.
In the wet if you played with the throttle exiting a corner it would cycle between locked and unlocked and make the back end of the car jump around, but as i said above they were the old style Detroits that were much clunkier in operation than the new 'Soft Locker' versions and they were in in light vehicles like Group C XU-1 Toranas.
The trick was to be positive with your power application and have the car pretty straight before dumping the power in, then they work like a charm.

Basically they are an 'unlocker' rather than a locker.

In straight ahead driving the unit remains locked, even as you coast into a corner under a trailing throttle the unit is still locked (they will induce a mild case of corner entry understeer because of this)
As the wheel speeds become greater across the axle the outer dogs will ramp out and unlock and remain this way until either the wheel speeds match as you exit the corner or power is applied, in which case the unit locks.

If you give it a big bootfull of right foot during a wet roundabout you will feel the effect as the unit locks, however I'm guessing it will be a lot less of an effect in a Rover with full time 4WD than it is in a 2WD as you have a lot less torque driving through the locked axle.

In the old days they used to scrub tyres pretty severely and clank and carryon. I used to hate the bastards with a vengeance, I reckoned they had no place in a precision vehicle like a race car but from what everyone says these days they appear to be much more benign and quiet in operation, so much so that I'd consider one myself, particularly with the longer wheelbase of the 130.

Originally Posted by rick130

[snip]
If you give it a big bootfull of right foot during a wet roundabout you will feel the effect as the unit locks, however I'm guessing it will be a lot less of an effect in a Rover with full time 4WD than it is in a 2WD as you have a lot less torque driving through the locked axle.

[snip]

Originally Posted by rovercare

Not in the rear of a constant 4wd

In a rear wheel drive yea, just like an LSD.....or even an open diff.....if you practcei throttle control enough

There's that one answered.

Originally Posted by rick130

In straight ahead driving the unit remains locked, even as you coast into a corner under a trailing throttle the unit is still locked (they will induce a mild case of corner entry understeer because of this)
As the wheel speeds become greater across the axle the outer dogs will ramp out and unlock and remain this way until either the wheel speeds match as you exit the corner or power is applied, in which case the unit locks.

Ok so this is a distinct difference between the detroit and the lock right/ lokka (which I had in a nissan and was excellent)

The Lokka does not lock simply because power is applied, or even full power. The lokka will only lock when wheel speeds match. But the only way to get the wheel speed to unmatch in the first place is to induce torque externally to one wheel which results in it spinning faster than the output of the engine and transmission. The corner is obvious, the outside wheel is driven faster than the engine is driving. In this case the lokka will allow it to over drive by disconnecting it all together. In fact you could put a 20 inch wheel on one side and a 40 inch wheel on the other and the lokka will compensate by letting the large diameter wheel cam faster (click click click).

It seems to me that the detroit may induce full lock when throttle is applied, even if there is a driven faster wheel, in this case thats the cause of all its hatred, problems, under steer etc, and a lock right may be nicer because of its more progressive natural nature.

Regarding the true trac with traction control, the true track I think is 8:1 ratio so the ground with less grip, say 10nm worth, will transmit 80nm to the other wheel, trac control is used to transmitting 1:1 of the power so with true track it will allow the traction control to work 8 times easier, thats got to be better than any locker I know. To me this is the perfect setup between electrics and machine.

Originally Posted by F4Phantom

It seems to me that the detroit may induce full lock when throttle is applied, even if there is a driven faster wheel, in this case thats the cause of all its hatred, problems, under steer etc, and a lock right may be nicer because of its more progressive natural nature.

I have a Detroit Soft Locker and I have none of theses so called bad experiences - wet or dry. You would never know it is there. The only time I hear it is on tight turns on hard surfaces like backing out the drive - on the road you never hear it - no impacts on steering - power on or off.

A lot of the bad stories are either that stories or do not apply to awd vehicles.

As far as I am aware a lock-rite is a cheap and nasty locker best left on the shelf - a detroit is far superior.

Garry

Originally Posted by garrycol

I have a Detroit Soft Locker and I have none of theses so called bad experiences - wet or dry. You would never know it is there. The only time I hear it is on tight turns on hard surfaces like backing out the drive - on the road you never hear it - no impacts on steering - power on or off.

A lot of the bad stories are either that stories or do not apply to awd vehicles.

As far as I am aware a lock-rite is a cheap and nasty locker best left on the shelf - a detroit is far superior.

Garry

No doubt the detroit is a better unit, I was poor at the time! However the device was still excellent in operation and was very reliable. So what model exactly is your detroit?

Originally Posted by F4Phantom

Ok so this is a distinct difference between the detroit and the lock right/ lokka (which I had in a nissan and was excellent)

The Lokka does not lock simply because power is applied, or even full power. The lokka will only lock when wheel speeds match. But the only way to get the wheel speed to unmatch in the first place is to induce torque externally to one wheel which results in it spinning faster than the output of the engine and transmission. The corner is obvious, the outside wheel is driven faster than the engine is driving. In this case the lokka will allow it to over drive by disconnecting it all together. In fact you could put a 20 inch wheel on one side and a 40 inch wheel on the other and the lokka will compensate by letting the large diameter wheel cam faster (click click click).

It seems to me that the detroit may induce full lock when throttle is applied, even if there is a driven faster wheel, in this case thats the cause of all its hatred, problems, under steer etc, and a lock right may be nicer because of its more progressive natural nature.

Regarding the true trac with traction control, the true track I think is 8:1 ratio so the ground with less grip, say 10nm worth, will transmit 80nm to the other wheel, trac control is used to transmitting 1:1 of the power so with true track it will allow the traction control to work 8 times easier, thats got to be better than any locker I know. To me this is the perfect setup between electrics and machine.

The Lokka is hardly so scientific, and has not much to do with wheel speeds as torque applied, when it locks it matches wheels speed, not wheel speed matches it locks

A lokka is just 2 dogs that rock of the cross pin, when enough torque is applied, the cross pin seperates the the 2 inners off the cross pin and locks them on the outer dogs, which are either side gear replacements, or mesh with the side gear

Apply enough torque and you will lock the Lokka, just the same as a Detroit locker or an LSD (Probably not a toyota one)

So the Lokka actually solely depends on power being applied to lock