Whats everyones opinions on new 4wd vehicles.

The trouble is what do I do.My Tdi has been the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned,will ever own but at 440+K's it won't be for much longer and to rebuild it back to a condition that I would be happy with would cost me $15,000 minimum.I need to lower my tax so to kill two birds with one stone a leased Puma is the obvious choice,I don't want or have no interest in any vehicle other than a defender but living 1600kms from the nearest dealer is a worry.The Puma is the best defender from the drivers seat and it will find a ready buyer after three years but will it,like the early cruisers inspire confidence or will I get sick of opening the bonnet and wishing I had never sold the old one. Pat

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Originally Posted by justinc

Pat,

Real outback touring in the true sense still requires the same parameters as 30years ago, simplicity, reliability and economy.

JC

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Mate I could not agree more....I am just a bit shakey on the reliability aspect of the 110 so far.

I bought the 110 as a return to grass roots as it were, as nothing else on the market even remotely interested me. Land cruiser used to be reliable until Toyota decided to go for being No1 in sales as opposed to be quality driven. I have been a Patrol man for years and would have bought one in a heartbeat had the 4.2 Turbo still been around but sadly when something works too well these dasy, it is doomed to be discontinued.

Pat there is no doubt that we are in the saddest state of affairs in my years.

Whilst personally I would never buy one in their current format, Jeep at least listened to customers and have catered for that niche. Land rover could do exactly the same if they started a Quality department. They have always had the products and the innovation, they just keep shooting themselves in the foot with quality and historically poor attitude. When I had my last Land rover they used 2 arguements

1. Do you know how lucky you were to be allowed to buy a Land rover

and when that didn't work they reverted to the old faithful

2. You think yours is bad, you should see the problems other people are having!!:(

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Originally Posted by PAT303

The trouble is what do I do.My Tdi has been the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned,will ever own but at 440+K's it won't be for much longer and to rebuild it back to a condition that I would be happy with would cost me $15,000 minimum.I need to lower my tax so to kill two birds with one stone a leased Puma is the obvious choice,I don't want or have no interest in any vehicle other than a defender but living 1600kms from the nearest dealer is a worry.The Puma is the best defender from the drivers seat and it will find a ready buyer after three years but will it,like the early cruisers inspire confidence or will I get sick of opening the bonnet and wishing I had never sold the old one. Pat

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I have no easy solution Pat, and I feel for the position you are in. To use it to reduce tax is a big plus, but if you feel it is reducing an important thing for you like reliability, then that is a decision only you can make. I have a few customers Tdis at high mileage, and both of them I would be happy to own/ drive. Can you lease a 'lesser' work vehicle, (60K is a lot to spend on a Defender IMO, best to wear out a BT50 or similar over 3 years ?) and still keep the Tdi? Or will that defeat the entire reason?

Sorry I have no magic wand:(

JC

If it was just me JC I'd spend 15K but it's the boss thats the trouble.It's a sad state of affairs when we have to think which is the least crappiest vehicle to buy out of all the vehicles on offer and how much money needs to be spent just to make it then do what a 20 year old vehicle would do easily. Pat

I wouldnt mind so much about these things but the manufacturers dont seem to react quick enough to these problems. The 3.0L Patrol engine has been around for about 10yrs, more than long enough to come up with a different engine combination to instil a bit of trust back in buyers.

Land Rover need to wake up and realise that fixing the inherent problems with the defender diffs and gearboxes would be cheaper than continually replacing them with the same crap parts that caused the problems in the past.

What happened to engineering? When something isnt up to the task engineer something that is.

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Originally Posted by Ace

I wouldnt mind so much about these things but the manufacturers dont seem to react quick enough to these problems. The 3.0L Patrol engine has been around for about 10yrs, more than long enough to come up with a different engine combination to instil a bit of trust back in buyers.

Land Rover need to wake up and realise that fixing the inherent problems with the defender diffs and gearboxes would be cheaper than continually replacing them with the same crap parts that caused the problems in the past.

What happened to engineering? When something isnt up to the task engineer something that is.

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Totally agree. Can you imagine in a parrallel universe where the defender over the last 50 years was refined bit by bit to address any problems, eg, got more room inside because they shifted the seat a bit, stronger drive train which could not break, a normal jap sort of easy 5 speed which did 500,000km between rebuilds, the td5 engine which was fiddled with untill it was bullet proof - the perfect mix of reliable electronics and mechancals with a timing chain not belt, full electrics with simple access like the RRC only less messy, doors which closed a bit tighter and good sound proofing and simple complexity updates for example installing ABS and airbags but 10 years after everyone else already sorted out the problems and reliable off shelf components are available to LR for OEM install.

They would have a line so big at the door dealers could just take orders over the internet.

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Originally Posted by F4Phantom

Totally agree. Can you imagine in a parrallel universe where the defender over the last 50 years was refined bit by bit to address any problems, eg, got more room inside because they shifted the seat a bit, stronger drive train which could not break, a normal jap sort of easy 5 speed which did 500,000km between rebuilds, the td5 engine which was fiddled with untill it was bullet proof - the perfect mix of reliable electronics and mechancals with a timing chain not belt, full electrics with simple access like the RRC only less messy, doors which closed a bit tighter and good sound proofing and simple complexity updates for example installing ABS and airbags but 10 years after everyone else already sorted out the problems and reliable off shelf components are available to LR for OEM install.

They would have a line so big at the door dealers could just take orders over the internet.

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Thats it. If you were running a business over 50 years and customers continually complained about the same thing, you would fix it im sure. Not land rover. Many people become used to the seating position but for something that seems to be the only real gripe journo's have to knock the vehicle why the hell cant land rover listen and fix the problem. They dont need to add expensive parts, make huge engineering modifications. They just need to source a narrower centre console and move the seat bolts, hardly a difficult process for a company that can make something as complex as a rangie vogue or a D4.

We are the reason vehicles are built like they are.. Simple.

How many family men on here have a DVD for the kids when traveling?

How many want rear A/C?

Less body roll? Give me DSC, ACE etc...

Integrated iPod? Yes please! I don't know how to make a $0.20 CD

Climate control so I don't need to adjust a dial 20cm from my finger tips... Absolutely.

Steering wheel volume buttons..

Dimming lights inside... Please.

A dong dong sound so busy me doesn't leave keys in or lights on... Yep that's handy.

Or a poster on here once going insane because he had to press the open door button on his key *twice* to open all his doors... Oh the horror that is modern life with a vehicle!!!!

Nope... Modern 4wd are a product of our making. They tow the larger things we desire and are more multipurpose then ever,

And all of them meet their design criteria... Just maybe not yours/mine. But they suit the core market.

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Originally Posted by Tombie2

And all of them meet their design criteria... Just maybe not yours/mine. But they suit the core market.

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I agree Tombie, but I reckon the core market want the ergonomics in the defender fixed up a tad, but in all this time its never been changed. I dont get it.

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Originally Posted by Tombie2

We are the reason vehicles are built like they are.. Simple.

How many family men on here have a DVD for the kids when traveling?

How many want rear A/C?

Less body roll? Give me DSC, ACE etc...

Integrated iPod? Yes please! I don't know how to make a $0.20 CD

Climate control so I don't need to adjust a dial 20cm from my finger tips... Absolutely.

Steering wheel volume buttons..

Dimming lights inside... Please.

A dong dong sound so busy me doesn't leave keys in or lights on... Yep that's handy.

Or a poster on here once going insane because he had to press the open door button on his key *twice* to open all his doors... Oh the horror that is modern life with a vehicle!!!!

Nope... Modern 4wd are a product of our making. They tow the larger things we desire and are more multipurpose then ever,

And all of them meet their design criteria... Just maybe not yours/mine. But they suit the core market.

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Mate I couldn't agree more. We did a LOT of touring with our kids and there were no hand held DVD's let alone head rest mounted ones. We made our own fun and distractions and heaven forbid, actually saw the country side.

Every thing you say is exactly why I bought a Defender...the day I load a satellite dish for Foxtel is the day someone can put me in a home!

I guess it is 2 sided...people demand more and companies beleiving they have to supply more...they feed off each other. If you want an example, have a decko at camper trailers...stone the crows you can pay the same as you would for a Defender for a 6 X 4 with more gadgets than a space shuttle. On leaving a recent Caravan and canping Expo I said to my son..when is enough, enough..you might as well stay home!

I think we would all trade those gadgets for some proven reliability what ever the brand.