Whats everyones opinions on new 4wd vehicles.

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3rd January 2011, 11:05 PM
spudboy

Designed for the Dump: This is more about electronic stuff, but equally applicable to cars:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW_7i6T_H78]YouTube - The Story of Electronics (2010)[/ame]
3rd January 2011, 11:14 PM
Celtoid

Oh and the comment that somebody posted about the 3.0L D4 not having a dipstick being a selling discriminator....well that pretty much sums up my point.....sorry guys do your homework or don't comment!!!!
3rd January 2011, 11:37 PM
Naks

The problem is that people have commoditised the car. You no longer buy a car to last a lifetime, you buy a car as an accessory, to be disposed as soon as the next model comes out, much like a cellphone.

This mentality is very prevalent in SA, and I'm sure in Oz as well? :(
4th January 2011, 12:18 AM
slug_burner

"The D4's about as practical off road as an XJ-12 Jaguar"

hmm! What can I say. You got me there. :o

Our current economic/financial/business models require that we act as good consumers and buy new stuff on a regular basis. Engineers are expected to come up with cost effective solutions to problems, however the problem that they are set to solve may not be the one that you would like them to solve. They solve the problems set to them by the people who pay them. Many are being paid to come up with goods that are cheap and reliable enough to keep people buying.

Engineering is all about a multitude of compromises. There is no one best solution for everyone.
4th January 2011, 12:20 AM
slug_burner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naks

The problem is that people have commoditised the car. You no longer buy a car to last a lifetime, you buy a car as an accessory, to be disposed as soon as the next model comes out, much like a cellphone.

This mentality is very prevalent in SA, and I'm sure in Oz as well? :(

Only if the apparent cost to the buyer is low enough.
4th January 2011, 12:36 AM
Celtoid

Quote:

Originally Posted by slug_burner

"The D4's about as practical off road as an XJ-12 Jaguar"

hmm! What can I say. You got me there. :o

Our current economic/financial/business models require that we act as good consumers and buy new stuff on a regular basis. Engineers are expected to come up with cost effective solutions to problems, however the problem that they are set to solve may not be the one that you would like them to solve. They solve the problems set to them by the people who pay them. Many are being paid to come up with goods that are cheap and reliable enough to keep people buying.

Engineering is all about a multitude of compromises. There is no one best solution for everyone.

For the love of god...do you own one (D4), ever driven one on or off-road?....I guess not!...otherwise you wouldn't write such ****e!

Sorry mate, that's facts!
4th January 2011, 12:38 AM
isuzutoo-eh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celtoid

Oh and the comment that somebody posted about the 3.0L D4 not having a dipstick being a selling discriminator....well that pretty much sums up my point.....sorry guys do your homework or don't comment!!!!

Hi Celtoid,
Your homework assignment for today is to ask my friend for his opinion. Can't do that-then don't comment. I made that post as it IS the opinion of a staunch 80 year old ex-truckie friend of mine, and it IS one reason as to why he's getting the 2.7L version. Not your expert opinion, not one learned through any forum or magazine article either. He wants to keep it till he or his wife can no longer drive, and lives >100km from a dealer so will service it himself after warranty or so he thinks. Funny, he doesn't care about rim size as it'll never go offroad. Maybe he'll sell it to me in ~15 years time...
And no, I haven't given my friend advice, because I've only had a comfy 30 metre trip in one through a river, so hardly qualified.
4th January 2011, 12:43 AM
Celtoid

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanoH

Maybe so. But who in their right mind would take one seriously off road. Electronic bloody everything, if you managed to drown one crossing a creek, hells bells you'd never get the thing going again.....ever. You'd toss in a match and claim the insurance.
And for 19" wheels, you've got to be joking. About as off road capable as a Toyota Starlet!

No. Engineering is about tackling problems and coming up with practical cost effective solutions. The D4's about as practical off road as an XJ-12 Jaguar, but great for taking the kids to school.

Nothing to do with Len Beadell or fencing wire. As the engineers play with themselves (or their I-pods) 4WD's have become more complex not more reliable. Making hairdressers cars is not engineering it's marketing.

Met a group of off roaders at Dalhousie Springs a couple of years ago, they were heading North towards Jervois. 60 series Land Cruisers and Troopys, 1H and 2H engines and split rims with 7.50X16's. Not flash but probably the most reliable 4WD's ever built. Try taking your 4WD of the year through this lot and see how far you'll get.
4WD 'engineering' may have become more about how many electronic do-hickys can be sold to a gullible prospective buyer than real off road capability and that may be where the main market is, but don't confuse this crap with real off road engineering or capability.

Deano:(

Have you ever actually seen a D4 let alone been in one in any situation?.....I doubt it! And your comments are based on what?....nothing .....
4th January 2011, 01:05 AM
Celtoid

Quote:

Originally Posted by isuzutoo-eh

Hi Celtoid,
Your homework assignment for today is to ask my friend for his opinion. Can't do that-then don't comment. I made that post as it IS the opinion of a staunch 80 year old ex-truckie friend of mine, and it IS one reason as to why he's getting the 2.7L version. Not your expert opinion, not one learned through any forum or magazine article either. He wants to keep it till he or his wife can no longer drive, and lives >100km from a dealer so will service it himself after warranty or so he thinks. Funny, he doesn't care about rim size as it'll never go offroad. Maybe he'll sell it to me in ~15 years time...
And no, I haven't given my friend advice, because I've only had a comfy 30 metre trip in one through a river, so hardly qualified.

Hi Mark...OK I'm confused...I'm failing to see the credibility here..your mate stated that the D4 is as capable as a Jag, or a Toyota Starlet....WT? Or is that your opinion?

Sorry mate, not getting your point.

And your old truckie mate servicing frome home....mmmm....depends on what he wants to service and the equipment and knowledge he has....it can all be done!...but I'm still missing the point.

For the record I couldn't give a toss about the super special features that my D4 has....I sure as hell didn't buy it for that...as in Blue Tooth, integrated this and that....but it works and that's fine. I bought it cause I wanted an integration of luxury sedan features (as in comfortable to drive) and off-road ability. I've driven it through stuff with ease that 'lifted', huge tyred 4WDs have managed easily too, but spun wheels and roared engines and at the end of the day are pooh to drive....

Sorry mate, confused...:confused:...."I know a mate that!"...same story!
4th January 2011, 01:12 AM
Fish78

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanoH

Maybe so. But who in their right mind would take one seriously off road.

Met a group of off roaders at Dalhousie Springs a couple of years ago, they were heading North towards Jervois. 60 series Land Cruisers and Troopys, 1H and 2H engines and split rims with 7.50X16's...
Deano:(

Not all old 4x4s are much better, have you seen the 4WD Action DVDs, Roothy with his 40 series kitted out with the best TJM/ARB/TERRAIN TAMER equip available, (probably $35k of stuff) BREAKS DOWN on almost every trip!

People from this forum have taken D3s and D4s to Cape York without incident and many other places.

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