6x6 drive and suspension

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Originally Posted by wagoo

:)
Could I be naughty and inject a bit of tech in this thread for a change?
Haven't seen any good rear end photos of the UK conversions, but do you know if they retain the Salisbury diff for the rearmost axle? <snip>
Wagoo.

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Wagoo

The simple answer is yes and no.
It really depends upon which conversion company and which model.

The Sandringham 6 particularly the Range Rover used a Rover style diff and that was the arrangement trialled and failed in the Perentie 6x6 Project. Some of the later ones have the modified 2nd axle and a Salisbury rear. At least the Defender that belongs to the ID posted above and it's partner have Salisbury rears.

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Originally Posted by wagoo

Thanks Ben.
<snip>
The BW Perentie diff was much larger than Holden HQ/HZ Salisbury or Falcon/Valiant Borg Warner models. but as far as I am aware was designed in cahoots with LandRover as it had a complete LT95 vac difflock actuater.
Wagoo.

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Wagoo

Do you know if the actuator is actually a 4th diff or merely an engaging mechanism?

When I saw the vehicle mentioned above the owner was convinced it is a locking diff mechanism (as opposed to a diff engaging mechanism) the bracketry on the transfer case uses the CDL mechanism to operate an air switch that engages the vacuum switch on the 2nd axle, not unlike the one on the LT95 (or the same parts). Will see if he'll let me take some piccys next time I'm out there.

Diana

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

The Sandringham 6 particularly the Range Rover used a Rover style diff and that was the arrangement trialled and failed in the Perentie 6x6 Project.

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Any evidence for this?? It seems Bill has just established above that the perentie prototypes used BW rear axles...

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

Any evidence for this?? It seems Bill has just established above that the perentie prototypes used BW rear axles...

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According to LandRovers 6x6 Civilian sales Brochure at the time, they trialled both coil and leaf spring suspension,with and without load sharing before settling on the current layout. There was a leaf sprung Stage One Sandringham 6 pickup in Melbourne around that time that was owned by one of the LandRover workshops that may also have been trialled as I vaguely recall it was military green.My earlier comments were based on observation of that unit. There would probably have been a range of diffs amongst the trialled protos.
Wagoo.

Edit. Missed a bit of your earlier post Dianne. The vacuum difflock actuator was bolted to the back of the diff casting in the approximate location where the l/h/side diff spreader tool hole would be if it was a Salisbury diff. So it was a difflock not a diff engager as on the second rear output housing on the 6x6 t/case.
Wagoo.

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

The pics before were a bit far away I recall.

If you take some closeup pics of the rear pan and the centres then someone on pirate4x4 should be able to ID them. If you post them here I can post them on pirate for you.

These are the dana axle pans (not to scale):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...11/03/1299.jpg

http://www.akextreme4x4.com/images/t.../Axle%20ID.jpg

Most of these are rotated 90 deg.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...11/03/1300.jpg

However - those lists are quite extensive - you should be able to tell us now!!!

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OK I popped out to take a pik. To me they dont look like any of those

Yes, that is the same Borg Warner diff that I mentioned earlier.Why they didn't develop a difflock for the Salisbury back then I think had something to do with local content requirements, and Borg Warner had a factory in Aus (Albury?) Don't know why they didn't use them in production Perenties though.
Wagoo.

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Originally Posted by 123rover50

OK I popped out to take a pik. To me they dont look like any of those

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You are right - no listing for an "11-bolt".

Bill is probably right, but a model number would help you with parts. I have posted here ID these axles please! (Borg-Warner???) - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board
Hope that is OK? We will see what turns up.

Do you know what spline count the axles are? Is there a serial/BOM number on the axle casing? (BOM numbers are Dana only, but borg warner may have a similar number).

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

Any evidence for this?? It seems Bill has just established above that the perentie prototypes used BW rear axles...

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I'm not sure - I didn't know about the BW diffs and thought they looked like a weird Rover diff - hence my comment "Rover style" maybe I should have said "banjo".

However if you or someone with more knowledge than I say it's a BW diff then it's a BW diff.

I can say that the 2nd axle diff in the Defender 6X6 at my friends, is the same as the two hanging under the Defender going over the sand dune (above).

As far as I know there were a number of manufacturers who made the UK 6X6 variants: Sandringham; Hotspur; Charmichael to name a few and Land Rover Special Products are rumoured to have done some also.

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

I'm not sure - I didn't know about the BW diffs and thought they looked like a weird Rover diff - hence my comment "Rover style" maybe I should have said "banjo".

However if you or someone with more knowledge than I say it's a BW diff then it's a BW diff.

I can say that the 2nd axle diff in the Defender 6X6 at my friends, is the same as the two hanging under the Defender going over the sand dune (above).

As far as I know there were a number of manufacturers who made the UK 6X6 variants: Sandringham; Hotspur; Charmichael to name a few and Land Rover Special Products are rumoured to have done some also.

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I was talking about the Perenties (I thought you were too?). I have never seen one with banjo type diffs (but Bill reports above that LRA may have imported one of almost every variant to trial).

123roverwhatever's 6x6 does not have banjo diffs.

The foley 6x6 pic I posted has rover diffs - as does every foley 6x6 pic I can find on their website and elsewhere - that is not to say they weren't changed to sals/etc in service when (not if) the rover diffs failed.

AFAIK one of the first Perentie trials 6X6 was a Stage 1 chassis and body, Range Rover suspension chassis brackets and Sandringham 6 running gear. There is a picture of it in the REMLR site, after it was retrofitted with the leaf spring arrangement that did make it to trial.

Ward from Graeme Cooper Automotive was on the 6X6 trials build team, or at least the SAS variant build, so I keep trying to pry info out of him. Have also spoken at length about the Perentie trials with Hugh Davis who was somehow also involved. One of the comments from Ward were that JRA took the vehicle out on tracks around Sydney and the system failed within 48 hours. Hugh suggests JRA then tried to get parts shipped from the U.K. and with several trys they got several different components supposed to be the same as the original vehicle. At that point they decided that they needed something more reliable in both it's durability and it's parts chain. Hence the move to whatever diffs, you people mentioned BW, I have also heard Oerlikon. It may be that the Sandringham system was only ever tested during development by JRA for the Perentie, but it never made it to trial with the Army, hence it was not a Perentie.

Diana

Dropped one of my RRc for service at Coopers today and had a chance to talk to Ward.

JRA imported two UK 6X6 variants for testing prior to initial build for the Perentie trials. They were both TACR:

1. one a Range Rover TACR 6X6 had coil springs and three Rover diffs. The second axle assembly had a rover diff, with a second diff nose and pinion mounted at the rear. This drive to the rear axle therefore went pinion->crownwheel->pinion->prop shaft->rear diff/axle.
2. The second Land Rover/Defender TACR had leaf suspension and drive with a system as described earlier in this thread. The leaf springs were not load sharing.

Both vehicles were designed for airfield mobility, did not articulate well off road and the systems were abandoned in favour of the locally designed and built system in the 6X6 Perenties we know now.