Low sulphur diesel

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29th June 2011, 07:30 AM
rick130

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naks

And when this happens you can look forward to even quicker failures on injectors and pumps.

??

Biodiesel is an esterfied oil or fat, one of the best lubricants around, how can that be a problem ?
29th June 2011, 07:38 AM
rick130

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

wow! how long have you had your vehicle? the Australian Government was fully aware of this problem and allowed for a rebate for any vehicles to have their fuel systems refurbished with compatible seals. I had my old pathfinder done foc must be 7yrs ago. Of course the rebate doesnt apply now.It seems weird that youre only experiencing the problem now.
btw, I dont think you can "keep out of caltex"......I believe they are the only diesel manufacturer north of Melbourne.

And all the modern pumps use viton seals instead of buna-n to prevent this problem.

If anything is leaking now it's because the seal is worn or contamination has damaged it.

My old tractor has a CAV rotary pump from the early seventies, so I just run a small amount of diesel fuel conditioner through it.
Problem solved.
29th June 2011, 07:49 AM
Chucaro

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick130

Chucaro, that 'article' is old !
............

Plenty of us have been running rotary injector pump diesels now for years without issue, and the shaft seal problems have been around since the rotary injector pump was introduced.

It's a non issue.

In the last 3 weeks I was looking for a pump for the Tdi 300 and I can telling you thet it is an issue.
The amount of pumps that have been servicing or replacing for seal faliure have the specialist very busy.
The faliure not only afect Bosh pumps but also other brands.
The only good thing is that the pumps now are $1000 cheaper than last year :)
29th June 2011, 08:03 AM
isuzurover

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chucaro

In the last 3 weeks I was looking for a pump for the Tdi 300 and I can telling you thet it is an issue.
The amount of pumps that have been servicing or replacing for seal faliure have the specialist very busy.
The faliure not only afect Bosh pumps but also other brands.
The only good thing is that the pumps now are $1000 cheaper than last year :)

Could this be more due to the fact that 300Tdi pumps are now up to 18 years old and many have a defect where slivers of case hardening break off...

Back when BP introduced their new diesel in the late 90s and all the failures were reported, I was working at a refinery. The refinery chemists told me the problem was due to the fact that BP diesel had more parrafins and olefins and fewer aromatics. It was actually very good diesel, but the lower aromatic levels were causing problems.

Polymers will expand or contract when exposed to different concentrations of aromatic compounds.
29th June 2011, 12:27 PM
mw310827

Quote:

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Lol - I always find this stuff amusing. In QLD, all diesel you buy comes from either the Caltex Lytton Refinery or the BP Bulwer Island Refinery.

So unless you buy your diesel over the internet and get it posted to you...

We are now up to ultra, ultra low sulphur diesel (I think) - less than 10 ppm sulphur anyway (australia wide, not just QLD). Sulphur is not a lubricant (despite myths to the contrary), however it is difficult to remove it without degrading the lubricity of the fuel.

BP diesel should have an average cetane number which is higher than caltex diesel, which means it should be a better fuel (in terms of performance anyway).

All diesel sold in AU can have up to 5% biodiesel to improve lubricity (without marking it as B5). This will soon be increased to 10% as it has been in the EU.

Per Aust Fed Govt laws, diesel fuel sold in Aust must not have a sulphur content of more than 15ppm. Most truck manufacturers are well into testing of Euro 6 compatible vehicles which will run on diesel with a sulphur content of 5ppm.
29th June 2011, 01:11 PM
isuzurover

Quote:

Originally Posted by mw310827

Per Aust Fed Govt laws, diesel fuel sold in Aust must not have a sulphur content of more than 15ppm. Most truck manufacturers are well into testing of Euro 6 compatible vehicles which will run on diesel with a sulphur content of 5ppm.

Sorry, but you are incorrect.

The current standard in AU is 10 ppm sulphur max. and 5% Bio Max.
Diesel Fuel Quality Standard

Quote:

Parameter National standard Date of effect Test Method
Biodiesel 1 5.0% volume by volume (max) 1-Mar-09 EN 14078
Sulfur 500 ppm (max) 31-Dec-02 ASTM D5453
50 ppm (max) 1-Jan-06
10ppm (max) 1-Jan-09

The EURO vehicle emissions standards are not fuel quality standards - though many people incorrectly refer to them as such since changed to the fuel standard often coincides.

EN590:2009 is the current EU fuel standard.
29th June 2011, 01:47 PM
land864

So !!

Will my 85 Isuzu County injection pump blow up soon?

I usually fill with Shell Diesel but only because it's convenient.

I ws hoping for the BP Ultimate to be available here in Melbourne in the next couple of years.

Are we saying stay away from that?

The inj pump was rebuilt 4-5 years ago by the PO with 210000 miles up on it.

Not sure what seals were put back in it?

I put a dose of Diesel Power additive in every now and again and may have even inadvertently stuffed up and put a dose of 2 stroke oil in it ( Because the bottle is exactly the same and I am an idiot :eek:) But by the sounds of it , that may have been a good thing.

Pete
29th June 2011, 02:03 PM
isuzurover

Quote:

Originally Posted by land864

So !!

Will my 85 Isuzu County injection pump blow up soon?

I usually fill with Shell Diesel but only because it's convenient.

I ws hoping for the BP Ultimate to be available here in Melbourne in the next couple of years.

Are we saying stay away from that?

The inj pump was rebuilt 4-5 years ago by the PO with 210000 miles up on it.

Not sure what seals were put back in it?

I put a dose of Diesel Power additive in every now and again and may have even inadvertently stuffed up and put a dose of 2 stroke oil in it ( Because the bottle is exactly the same and I am an idiot :eek:) But by the sounds of it , that may have been a good thing.

Pete

The ISUZU injector pump is a bosch/diesel kiki pump, which is lubricated with engine oil. They usually last a loooong time. I wouldn't worry.

The reason you have no BP ultimate in VIC is you don't actually have any BP fuel there. All fuel sold in Vic comes from either the Shell or Mobil refineries. BP, Caltex etc will have "product sharing" arrangements with one of the refineries.
29th June 2011, 04:40 PM
rick130

Quote:

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Could this be more due to the fact that 300Tdi pumps are now up to 18 years old and many have a defect where slivers of case hardening break off...

[snip]

and that's been happening long before even 50PPM sulphur diesel was introduced.

On the long gone LRE (UK) board back around 2001, blokes were having the problem of the fuel stop plunger doing this and jamming, then later on having to replace the entire pump.

Our Patrol uses the Japanese version of the Bosch VE rotary pump and it's just clocked up 365,000km and never been touched. (neither have the injectors, but that's more a case of me being slack....:angel:)
29th June 2011, 05:28 PM
Naks

Quote:

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Not from wear. Biodiesel has much better lubricity than dino diesel. The only disadvantage is it is harder to pull the water out, and bio is more prone to degrade if stored or exposed to elevated temperatures.

Sorry, I forgot to add due to extra moisture in my post. As we know, water is B-A-D in high-pressure CRD engines, and the more biodiesel you add to the diesel, the quicker you will get failures on CRD components.

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