Thread: Carbon Tax. Well someone had to bring it up!

Dont forget as the big polluters reduce their carbon pollution the revenue will fall as they wont put as much into the air.
Once the price of anything (except prawns) goes up it will never drop even if they become more efficient ( just look at bank fees Vs Bank profits ) so more $$$ will need to be found to cover the rising costs, then when everything goes up again because freight will rise when fuel becomes included then they will need to find more $$$ to offset the extra costs, so carbon tax will rise, then it will all start again...


Hey, but we live in the lucky country


Cheers Ean

Originally Posted by Tombie

Tombies Carbon reduction plan part 1....

ALL THOSE WISHING TO BREED - STOP...

That little bundle of joy will produce more carbon emissions in their life than we can fix.

Would it be ok if I just continue to practice going through the breeding ritual ? I mean, one can take sacrifice in the name of environmentalism a little too far.
Wagoo.

Thing that gets me is that we have a government that is addicted to tax and they will find any reason to tax us, even a good cause such as save the planet will be bent to tax us (can anybody tell me the % of green house emmison that is direct attributed to man?)...on the weekend I Heard a report that Sydeny, Perth, Brisbane and Melbourne are among the top 15 most expensive places on earth to live and I'm sure that most of us that have lived overseas will agree that is the truth, so why should we pay any amount for little gain? Why should we give the government another excuse to raise taxes? Where does it end? Maybe we need another Eureka Stockade?

I guess that was my first soapbox.

Originally Posted by pfillery

It is probably with as much interest as everyone else that I watched details over the weekend of the carbon tax that is coming.

Made me think. If the big polluters are to be charged a tax for not being environmentally friendly, instead of the government taxing them, they up their prices to us and the government gives us a kickback, why doesn't the government rule that they cannot increase their prices due to the tax, and make this enforcable by the ACCC etc. If the object is to stop them polluting which is what they have been saying all along, this would be the way. Wouldn't you do what you could to change your ways rather than pay a tax you couldn't pass on?

The way it stands, it's like a tradesman, say an electrician, charging you an extra $210 for the callout because he got fined for speeding on the way to your house. I'd tell him where to go and I'm sure everyone else would too. Same goes for the tax - stop them passing it on, make them justify any supposedly unrelated price increase, fix their prices for a couple of years and even name them publicly, so customers support the ones being more responsible. they rate our schools to enable choices so why not big companies as well.

Opens the way for other methods of power generation such as nuclear power.

Your tradesman analogy is flawed. Actually, I think all analogies are probably flawed, but some are more flawed than others.

An adjustment to your analogy would make it better, but still flawed. It is more like two tradesman turning up to give you a quote. One was done for speeding on the way over, so add the fine to the quote. The other drove below the legal limit, so has no "extras" added to the quote. Which one will you accept?

Or a better analogy (though still flawed) is the same two tradesmen. One drives a V9 ute as his work vehicle and includes travel costs as a legitimate part of the quote. The other uses a work vehicle with a small turbo diesel engine (something like a Defender ) and also includes his much smaller travel costs in the quote. Which one do you think you will accept?

You seem to disapprove of the government taxing and then compensating. However, that is not so different from what happens already. Those same two tradesmen contribute to government coffers through the excise they pay on fuel. The government uses that money and money from other sources to fund the schools that your children or grandchildren attend, or to pay for the health care that your parents get, or to build the roads that you drive on. Sometimes they even give it to you as a tax cut. So the tradie with the V8 is contributing more to your children's education expenses than the one with the little diesel.

The carbon tax will work the same way. Big polluters contribute more to the compensation package. Energy efficiency will be one way a business can become more competitive.

BTW, those who continue to use China's carbon output as a reason why we should do nothing should look at some of the advances China is making in sustainable energy and energy conservation. Unless Australian industry is encouraged or goaded into trying to match them, Australian products will become less competitive in a world where several countries already have various carbon pricing schemes. I don't have the details at hand, but I believe that Qantas has to pay a tax to fly into some EU countries because Australia doesn't yet have a price on carbon. That sort of thing will become more common.

The notion that Australia is leading the world is a myth. We are actually in danger of being left behind.

BTW I was right about this topic quickly bringing out the usual mindless political rants.

I think everyone genuinely wants to move away from fossil fuels to renewable energy. It just makes sense, even if you are not a greenie.

Unfortunately this govt, and indeed most, think the only solution to any problem is a tax, or some fancy word for tax.

All this tax does is shuffle money around, not from A-B, but from A-Z. It will hurt/affect everyone in Australia.

What is needed is DIRECT investment into R&D into better/more advanced renewable energy. Solar and geothermal probably make the most sense. No one wants wind generators on their property and is useless for much of Australia. There are developments for solar to provide up to 3 days of power with no sun by storing heat in salt solution at 600* C. Don't quote me on those figures exactly but something along those lines. Geothermal can provide 24/7 base load power.

Where does this money come from? How about better money management for starters, stop wasteful defence spending like buying obsolete crap from US then spending billions to fix them up (yeah right). I don't know, but billions of dollars are wasted every year.

Either way, glad I just put a 3kw solar panel system on my new house, along with water tanks and north facing windows and good insulation etc etc

so lets say i have a business that produces X amount of carbon a year. there fore i need to purchase x amount of carbon credits a year, or and i could invest in reducing the amount of carbon i produce or i could invest in something that produces carbon credits.

lastly i could do nothing and pay a tax.

if i buy carbon credits then i will in effect paying some one to produce these credits and thus i am producing jobs.
or i could invest in producing carbon credits myself, in short employ more people.

i can so no losers here.

Originally Posted by vnx205

<snip> The government uses that money and money from other sources to fund the schools that your children or grandchildren attend, or to pay for the health care that your parents get, or to build the roads that you drive on. Sometimes they even give it to you as a tax cut. So the tradie with the V8 is contributing more to your children's education expenses than the one with the little diesel.

The carbon tax will work the same way. Big polluters contribute more to the compensation package. Energy efficiency will be one way a business can become more competitive.

BTW, those who continue to use China's carbon output as a reason why we should do nothing should look at some of the advances China is making in sustainable energy and energy conservation. Unless Australian industry is encouraged or goaded into trying to match them, Australian products will become less competitive in a world where several countries already have various carbon pricing schemes. I don't have the details at hand, but I believe that Qantas has to pay a tax to fly into some EU countries because Australia doesn't yet have a price on carbon. That sort of thing will become more common.

<snip>

I am aware of the impact humans have on the world, so have chosen not to have children. I am saving the planet because my children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren will not consume and will not generate CO2. My parents who are in their 80's were business people who created jobs, and because of that are ineligible for aged pensions and other benefits, in fact they still have to pay for private hospital insurance. So your analogy is flawed because I couldn't care less about school children being educated in a socialist free education system and what health care are you talking about that my parents get? I live in Sydney and it seems that every road recently built has a toll attached to it and now there are plans to introduce a toll on the Pacific, Hume and Princess highways. In a capitalist system (like China) it should be user pays for everyone.

In a capitalist system business will generate profit by reducing cost, Australia will be left behind because our population and market is too small to generate economies of scale. Our chances of value adding are therefore reduced and our wages are too high therefore our Australian industries will all eventually move to places where labour costs are reduced and no amount of encouragement or goading will stop our jobs moving offshore untill the playing field is flat and ALL CONTRIES HAVE THE SAME PRICE ON CARBON. We are only accellerating the rate of employment loss if we introduce a carbon price before our competitors.

PSALM 2010-2011;
FROM THE FIRST BOOK OF GOVERNMENT

Julia is the shepherd I did not want.
She leadeth me beside the still factories.
She restoreth my faith in the Liberal party.
She guideth me in the path of unemployment for her party's sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the bread line,
I shall fear no hunger for her bailouts are with me.
She has anointed my income with taxes,
My expenses runneth over.
Surely, poverty and hard living will follow me all the days of my life.
And I will live in a rented home forever.