4x4 tow ropes

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Harmlessly flicks hey

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tombie

You've obviously never seen one let go under load

I've broken / been around enough broken straps to know the "harmless flick" statement is so far removed from reality...

That "harmless flick" has claimed a few door panels, a grill and even a window - That I can assure you.

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Certainly have seen one snapping under load. I can't imagine what else would make them let go? And I can't imagine what else you'd call a Patrol, bogged in sand with a full payload other than a heavy load.

I just can't understand how, from these two events (and I've only ever seen two same Patrol) a broken snatch could do any damage (maybe a plastic grill but a window??) unless it was the eyelets that gave way or other pieces of the recovery point were still attached.

Of course I could be wrong which is why I asked.

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Originally Posted by reubsrover

Certainly have seen one snapping under load. I can't imagine what else would make them let go? And I can't imagine what else you'd call a Patrol, bogged in sand with a full payload other than a heavy load.

I just can't understand how, from these two events (and I've only ever seen two same Patrol) a broken snatch could do any damage (maybe a plastic grill but a window??) unless it was the eyelets that gave way or other pieces of the recovery point were still attached.

Of course I could be wrong which is why I asked.

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rebusrover,

I think you are wrong.

The potential energy stored in the strap, if it lets go a you are in the way it can do serious damage, even if it does not have an eylet/towball or the like attached.

I think someone used the rubber band analogy earlier in this thread, flick a rubber band at your own head and it will give you bit of sting. Multiply that by the quantum of forces applied by a snatch strap under load and the size and thickness of a snatch strap and I for one could see how this could cause you serious issues if it hit you.

Like anything used correctly and with the right safety procedures followed the risk is minimised but still they exist.

Also if as you note you have seen one let go you would recognise that harmless flick goes off more like a shot from a cannon !

George.

Most likely I am, thanks for the advice Tombie and George. Probably in both instances I've seen there was luck involved as well as a nice bullbar to minimize any chance of damage. There was a reasonable sound from the breaking of the snatch not quite a canon though.

Still I'd rather have the snatch give way than the recovery point.

Better yet...use it properly or throw it out if it's no good. It'd be nice to have some decent 4wd recovery training from my employer.

Extensive discussion, by David Bowyer, about 4x4 towing and tow ropes can be found here: DBORC:David Bowyer's Off Road Centre


Cheers
KarlB
:)

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Originally Posted by CraigE

There are lots of options as it is towing not recovery. The biggest issue is knowing how to tow and not doing stupid things in the vehicle being towed like hard braking, riding brakes, handbrake or in gear. It happens.
The rope itself is not really an issue, just how it is attached. Of course cheap unrated rope will break. Avoid shock loading.
As Brian has said old long lifting slings are good. Personally I use old Rescue Rope (Static Kern-mantel) rated at 3200kgs with figure eight knots on the bite each end attached correctly. If you do go down this line, cut into lengths unsuitable for use as rescue rope.

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Actually I had an old retired climbing rope, cut in half and then thirds. Then the 3 thirds braided together and eyes spliced into that and whipped. Had just enough elasticity to avoid shock load. Made 2 tow ropes. Eventually retired and took in and had destruction tested, eye splices held to 80T and braided rope failed at over 120T :eek: Visually wouldn't have climbed on it but seems it still had plenty left.

I use a 12m length of sailing rope (sheet). Same stuff as used for the mainsheet blocks on a yacht ... 13 or 16mm. This stuff has a little give (not much), and is incredibly strong. Minimal to no stored energy. Double it down to 6m, tie a generous loop in each end using a bowline (easy to undo after a tow), then attached each looped end to the tow/towed vehicle using a D shackle.

I have used this to tow start a tilt-tray truck with a SWB SIII 4cyl .... more than strong enough, easy to stow, and can be used as a rope for all sorts of other uses.

Not cheap though :(

When Snatchem Straps first came out back in the 80's we were travelling up Cape York and came across a SWB Nissan MQ Patrol bogged to the belly in sludge. An early Landcruiser tray back had reversed up to it! hooked a snatchem strap onto the towbar and then taken off full stick to try and pull the Nissan out of the bog. As a result the Nissan towbar pulled clean out of the chassis and ended up like a 10-15 kg projectile soaring through the air. Luckily the Toyota had a canvas canopy and a load of gear on the tray, which took the velocity out of the towbar before it collided with the back of the ute cab. It stretched hell out of the rear of the ute cab on the Toyota but did not penetrate it. Had it not been for the canopy and gear on the tray the driver would surely have lost his life.
Snatchems are dangerous tools if misused.

I have some pics/slides somewhere of the result...must see if I can find them and post them.

Cheers, Mick.

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Originally Posted by mick88

When Snatchem Straps first came out back in the 80's we were travelling up Cape York and came across a SWB Nissan MQ Patrol bogged to the belly in sludge. An early Landcruiser tray back had reversed up to it! hooked a snatchem strap onto the towbar and then taken off full stick to try and pull the Nissan out of the bog. As a result the Nissan towbar pulled clean out of the chassis and ended up like a 10-15 kg projectile soaring through the air. Luckily the Toyota had a canvas canopy and a load of gear on the tray, which took the velocity out of the towbar before it collided with the back of the ute cab. It stretched hell out of the rear of the ute cab on the Toyota but did not penetrate it. Had it not been for the canopy and gear on the tray the driver would surely have lost his life.
Snatchems are dangerous tools if misused.

I have some pics/slides somewhere of the result...must see if I can find them and post them.

Cheers, Mick.

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This was the point I was trying to get at. Obviously nothing should break if the recovery is performed correctly with proper gear however if anything was going to break I'd want the snatch strap to break.

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Originally Posted by clubagreenie

Actually I had an old retired climbing rope, cut in half and then thirds. Then the 3 thirds braided together and eyes spliced into that and whipped. Had just enough elasticity to avoid shock load. Made 2 tow ropes. Eventually retired and took in and had destruction tested, eye splices held to 80T and braided rope failed at over 120T :eek: Visually wouldn't have climbed on it but seems it still had plenty left.

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Is your rope static or dynamic. Generally climbing is dynamic and will flex more a bit like a snatch strap, static is rescue rope and while it will flex a little is nowhere near where what a dynamic rope will flex too. Both are ideal tow ropes, just designed a little different, Climbing rope is designed to elongate more if you fall reasonable distances and absorb the shock.

I use a 6 metre long, 75 mm webbing tree trunk protector as a tow rope.

Snatch strap wise, I have a Staun Red Back Super Strap which does not have stitched loops at the end but rather a series if longitudinal slots along the length of the strap that you can lace the ends through. This essentially eliminates the need to use shackles to attach the strap to each vehicle and thus eliminates potential projectiles from the recovery.

Cheers
KarlB
:)