Cost of public transport - UNREASONABLE!

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Actually Melbourne's city loop was only built in the 1970s.

Building a grid pattern road system with radial public transport arteries is relatively easy when the region is relatively flat and there is a will to pay for it. It is not so easy when the city is located on four flooded river valleys, like Sydney.

BTW: On Ron's trailer bus, wasnt that "Trailer Tours" since merged into Bosnjacks which is now Veolia (sounds like a company that should have mafia connections :D )

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Yes, the big advantage Melbourne has over either Sydney or Brisbane is that is on flat ground and was laid out on a rectangular grid, slightly modified by the bay and the Yarra. Sydney not only had to fit round the harbour, Botany Bay and Port Hacking, and the rivers feeding into them, but much of the metropolitan area is very hilly, due to the effects of these incised valleys and their tributaries in the cliff-forming Hawkesbury Sandstone. Further, town planning was not introduced into Sydney until around the time Melbourne was founded, after sixty years of development, including most of the major roads in what is now the metropolitan area.

Adelaide and Perth have had similar advantages to Melbourne - relatively flat, and planned from the outset.

Trailer tours was an offshoot of the Ryde Bus company to use their trailer bus after it stopped being used for scheduled services. I suspect the reason it stopped being used was that a conductor was essential, making its larger capacity uneconomic compared to smaller driver only buses. I might comment on this subject, that I think I was probably in my late teens before I had ever travelled on a bus with a conductor, despite travelling to school by bus from the age of five. (And these were regular buses - no school buses in that time and place)

John

I saw a country link bus once in town. Does that count as public transport?

I would have taken my works offer of the $3,000 for a pushy but it wouldn't cover the purchase of a property to sleep at half way to work.

If they want people to use public transport it must be cheaper than a car and reliable.

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Originally Posted by George130

I saw a country link bus once in town. Does that count as public transport?

I would have taken my works offer of the $3,000 for a pushy but it wouldn't cover the purchase of a property to sleep at half way to work.

If they want people to use public transport it must be cheaper than a car and reliable.

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Work out your total cost per kilometre of running your car. That is, both standing cost, and running cost.

Standing cost includes registration, CTP, inspection, comprehensive insurance, excesses if you have a claim, depreciation, garaging, etc.

Running cost is fuel and oil, servicing, repairs, parts, tyres, etc.

You will be surprised how much per kilometre your cars cost you.

Any good fleet managers have these costs at their fingertips and compare makes, models, drivers and so on in an endeavour to get the $/km down.

When I had line haul trucks I calculated cost per ton mile as well. I knew how much I could quote a job at and make a profit.

Your car will cost you more than any form of public transport.

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Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

Work out your total cost per kilometre of running your car. That is, both standing cost, and running cost.
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You will be surprised how much per kilometre your cars cost you.
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Yes, but the problem is, if you have the car in any case (for use when there is no alternative), the standing costs are there regardless of whether you drive or take public transport. This means that if comparing the cost of making a trip (for example, your commute) by car or public transport, you should only use the running costs, plus of course trip related costs such as parking.

It depends on how many kilometres a year you travel, the type of car, how long you keep it etc, but for a typical private car the standing costs are 50-75% of total cost per kilometre. The largest components of this are usually the cost of capital and depreciation, but for cheaper cars insurance and registration plus repairs can loom large. The same vehicle as a commercial vehicle often has a substantially lower cost per kilometre because of much higher utilisation.

John

And of course, the cost comparison is somewhat immaterial if the public transport doesn't get you where you need to go, and when you need to be there!

If your car is new(ish) and depreciation is a factor then the calc's are often an issue in comparison. However, if you drive an old(er) reasonably economical 6 or 4 cylinder and do not have to pay for parking then you can easily be in front for $'s and massively in front for convenience. Issue is that those who cant afford new cars and depreciation are probably not as likely to manage/live with inconvenience.

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Originally Posted by DT-P38

If your car is new(ish) and depreciation is a factor then the calc's are often an issue in comparison. However, if you drive an old(er) reasonably economical 6 or 4 cylinder and do not have to pay for parking then you can easily be in front for $'s and massively in front for convenience. Issue is that those who cant afford new cars and depreciation are probably not as likely to manage/live with inconvenience.

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Ignoring convenience (and this is often, if not almost always the decider!) the two major factors in determining the fixed cost per kilometre are how many kilometres you drive per year, and how long you keep the vehicle, plus how much you paid for it. These are obviously variables, so the calculation has to be made for each individual case. What is usually done is to take averages for these figures, and it is not at all clear that this is useful!

However, what is often forgotten by people is the cost of capital. This is, depending how you buy the vehicle, either the cost of borrowing the money, or the income forgone by not investing the money if you paid cash. It varies according to prevailing interest rates. And it can be quite significant. For example (using some round numbers), if we pay $50,000 for a new car, and do 10,000km/yr, and interest is 10%, this is $0.50/km - compared to fuel cost (10l/100km, $1.20/l) $0.12/km. Even if you only paid $10,000 for the car, and interest is only 5%, it is still almost half as much as the fuel cost. Of course it is inversely proportional to the distance you travel each year, and this applies to all standing costs.

But as I commented above, if the car is going to be there anyway, standing costs need not be taken into account in comparing with public transport.

John

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Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

Work out your total cost per kilometre of running your car. That is, both standing cost, and running cost.

Standing cost includes registration, CTP, inspection, comprehensive insurance, excesses if you have a claim, depreciation, garaging, etc.

Running cost is fuel and oil, servicing, repairs, parts, tyres, etc.

You will be surprised how much per kilometre your cars cost you.

Any good fleet managers have these costs at their fingertips and compare makes, models, drivers and so on in an endeavour to get the $/km down.

When I had line haul trucks I calculated cost per ton mile as well. I knew how much I could quote a job at and make a profit.

Your car will cost you more than any form of public transport.

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I would have to drive to town to use public transport.

I do 40-45000km a year on the work commute. Fuel costs me $270 a fortnight and we own the car as it is so old. Due to age and being a POS it only has 3rd party property so insurance is almost nothing. When it dies I will sell it for scrap as no dealer will touch an 14 year old high km car these days.

I live in a relatively inner suburb and my closest public transport is 1 1/2 Km away and the bus to work is more than 2 Km away. More than that there is effectively no all day parking at the station and none at the bus stop, so I would have to walk in all weather. Once on the bus during peak periods it takes over an hour (in fact for a 7am start I have to be at the bus stop at 5.40 am). Even in peak periods the drive to work takes 45 min or 15 min in off peak, why would I consider catching the bus at any cost?

So the cost/Km comparison is irrelevant.

Other aspects not mentioned relate to fellow commuters.

I drove from Emu Plains to Paddington in Sydney (60km each way in peak hour traffic) rather than travel by train just to physically avoid other commuters.

I hated it when a smoker would board the train and sit/stand near me. I'd have to give up my seat and move away from the stench of someone who has just put out a cigarette before boarding. The trouble was that, at the next station, another smoker would board the train.

Then there are the pax who don't use deodorant. :mad:

Once I stopped using public transport the incidence of colds also fell. :)

Avoiding all that was well worth the extra cost.