Something other than R380?

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31st October 2011, 04:06 PM
Tins

The original box was a suffix L. It failed due to a leak from a Fred Smith installed cooler. ( Note, in no way am I blaming Fred! )
The box currently in the car came from a 140k '95 model. The suffix is not known, as the car is elsewhere.

I've ben around cars one way or another for more than 40 years, and I have NEVER known a manual gearbox to fail completely, supplying no drive except in direct, without warning. And I have had, and worked on. a large number of British and Italian cars in that time. Both the R380's have failed this way, leaving the car stranded. Not even the Daimler DB18 managed that! So, Pat, I know there are many out there going fine, but to have a car that is simply driving down the freeway at 100 K's suddenly lose drive and come to a stop is "dramatic". There was no noise, no warning.

The oil level in the current box is correct. The oil is that recommended by the aforesaid F Smith.

The car is a 300TDi. It's driven in an economical way, and has that oil cooler fitted.

Given that there seems to be no conversion you guys are aware of that meets the needs of simplicity and price, and price would also rule out the Ashcroft option as well, do you reckon a reasonably competent ex mechanic, armed with an overhaul kit ( $550, waiting for a parts list ) and a LR repair manual, but no special tools could take on a rebuild of the J box? I haven't done anything like it in more than 20 years.
31st October 2011, 04:51 PM
Psimpson7

The original box, if it was in a tdi, wouldn't have been suffix L I don't think if it was the original one with the vehicle.

When you say the first one failed because of an oil leak, what happened / broke?

The one you have now is likely to be suffix J. Presumably that broke the mainshaft, or the splines have gone on the back of the main shaft?

With regard to rebuilding it.....

They are not easy, but not impossible. LR suggest a lot of special tools. I did mine without any of them.
31st October 2011, 05:15 PM
Tins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psimpson7

The original box, if it was in a tdi, wouldn't have been suffix L I don't think if it was the original one with the vehicle.

When you say the first one failed because of an oil leak, what happened / broke?

The one you have now is likely to be suffix J. Presumably that broke the mainshaft, or the splines have gone on the back of the main shaft?

With regard to rebuilding it.....

They are not easy, but not impossible. LR suggest a lot of special tools. I did mine without any of them.

The original, as in the box that was in the car when my son bought it, had been fitted by Fred Smith as a NEW gearbox. I still have it 55A.0798448L is clearly marked near the drain. ( Fred knows the car, as he fitted most of the good stuff, such as Maxdrive axles, Locker, Lower T/F case gearing, diff guards etc.
This box lost drive except in fourth/direct. It hasn't been stripped for diagnosis.
As for the other, it's still in the car while my son gnashes his teeth and curses all things LR.
I'm heartened by you saying you did yours without special tools.
I think I will strip the L box to see what happened.
The kit I mentioned comes from CLR 4WD Parts. Do we know them?
31st October 2011, 05:25 PM
Psimpson7

Gary at CLR is pretty good - I have used him. I tend to get all my box stuff straight from Ashcrofts in the UK though.

As you say take it apart and see how you get on / whats damaged.

Getting the collar off the back of the mainshaft is a pain. You will need quite a big puller.

Take a lot of pictures of how it looks as you take it apart. I took a lot and they were a life saver!

good luck!
31st October 2011, 05:36 PM
Tins

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAT303

R380's are prone to sudden failure just like any other manual box,thats the way it is.I also don't think the problem is as dramatic as you put it as many R380's are doing fine at big K's,I'd get an Ashcroft built box and forget about it. Pat

Now I'm aware of the different types of boxes that were used, I take your point, but broken mainshafts etc don't happen in too many cars that I'm familiar with. Even my fragile Fiats don't do that. But this car has had two failures of an apparently similar nature, i.e. total loss of drive. There could, of course, be two different causes, but my experiences so far cause me to distrust this gearbox. I suppose I'm a little spoiled by the ZF auto unit in my TD5.

As for the Ashcroft unit, I'm afraid his budget doesn't run to $1300 ( Unit + core price ) plus who knows for shipping plus the time it takes to get here. It would be nice, though.:)
31st October 2011, 05:43 PM
Tins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psimpson7

Gary at CLR is pretty good - I have used him. I tend to get all my box stuff straight from Ashcrofts in the UK though.

As you say take it apart and see how you get on / whats damaged.

Getting the collar off the back of the mainshaft is a pain. You will need quite a big puller.

Take a lot of pictures of how it looks as you take it apart. I took a lot and they were a life saver!

good luck!

Thanks. How long does it take for stuff to come from Ashcrofts? I don't mean a whole box, but bearings, synchro's etc?

As for the collar, I have access to a press. Will that do?

Photos??? I take photos of EVERYTHING I take apart these days. Sometimes that's the only way I ever see the thing the way it used to be! Mostly, though, the memory ain't what it used to be.
31st October 2011, 05:44 PM
rick130

John, if you click on the links I've posted above you'll see Pete's layshaft failure and be able to read some of Dave Ashcroft's input into how, where and why they let go.
31st October 2011, 05:48 PM
Psimpson7

Quote:

Originally Posted by johntins

Thanks. How long does it take for stuff to come from Ashcrofts? I don't mean a whole box, but bearings, synchro's etc?

4-5 days. They are very quick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johntins

As for the collar, I have access to a press. Will that do?

.

For putting it back on yes, but not for getting it off. I just bought a puller from tradetools - cost about 50$
31st October 2011, 06:05 PM
Tins

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick130

John, if you click on the links I've posted above you'll see Pete's layshaft failure and be able to read some of Dave Ashcroft's input into how, where and why they let go.

Not a pretty sight. Some interesting reading there though.
31st October 2011, 06:09 PM
Tins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psimpson7

4-5 days. They are very quick.

For putting it back on yes, but not for getting it off. I just bought a puller from tradetools - cost about 50$

From the UK? That's more than quick!

So a gear puller? I've got a couple of those, but I'll see when I start I guess.

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