Bungy strap failure cost two lives

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Originally Posted by John W

Sorry but I object to road conditions being blamed for accidents. It is road user behaviour that is 99.9% responsible for accidents and probably less than 0.1% from unforeseeable other failures. The road is inanimate so look before you drive on it, if you can not see the pot holes or off camber or oil slick then slow down.

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Not blaming the conditions, am blaming the lack of appropriate infrastructure, on the M5 thousands of cars are forced onto 2 lanes, travelling at high speed, no matter what speed the driver of the full loaded semi was travelling car drivers will and do squeeze into any space in front of it, if any of those cars then slam on the brakes the truck driver has no where to go, because there are always cars on the lane next to you.

If there were 4 lanes in each direction, like on the Gold Coast or the Metropolitan Ring Road in Melbourne, the vehicles have room to spread out and don't have to squeeze into any space you find even though it is in front of a fully laden semi travelling at the speed limit.

But it's been 2/3 lanes for over a decade and people still drive like they're the only people on the road. It could be 10 lanes wide and people would still drive up the clacker of the car in front.

I'm not saying the road is adequate, but it is what it is, and it's not going to get any better any time soon.

So I reckon it comes back to driving to the conditions - which includes an appropriate gap, but also checking mirrors and considering consequences of your actions - panicked or otherwise.

Matt.

hard as it may be to accept,
the reason for the accident appears to be the failure of the vans' loader, driver or assistant, that is whoever put the ladder on to ensure that the ladder was secured safely.

the truck that hit the car was most likely doing just as any of us would do, driving at the legal speed on a highway not expecting to have a car suddenly try to stop in front of him.

it's all right for the do gooders of this world to critisize the truck driver for not adhering to a safe distance behind the car in front, but you do gooders should also look in the mirror.

we have all tried to set a safe distance behind the car in front to give ourselves a braking space

be honest with yourselves,
how many of you find that when you have comfortably set that safety gap some car has slipped into that space?

so imagine how hard it is to drive a truck and keep that safety gap.

you even do it yourselves, drop into the gap a truck has got between him and the car in front of him.

give the truth a break, don't speculate that the truck is always wrong,
most of the truck drivers you see on the roads are proffessional drivers and have far more experience on the road that you or i will ever have.

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Originally Posted by John W

Sorry but I object to road conditions being blamed for accidents. It is road user behaviour that is 99.9% responsible for accidents and probably less than 0.1% from unforeseeable other failures. The road is inanimate so look before you drive on it, if you can not see the pot holes or off camber or oil slick then slow down.

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If you look at accident or death statistics according to road types and conditions, you have to come to the conclusion that road conditions are by far the major factor in road accidents. To get away from this example, taking one local one here - between here and town there are two level crossings. Until about ten years ago, they were guarded by stop signs and killed two or three per year. Then flashing lights were installed and there has not been a single accident since, despite much heavier traffic on both the road and the railway.

There is no doubt that freeways are by far the safest type of road (even urban freeways with not enough lanes!), but nothing is absolutely safe, as this accident showed. As usual, there are multiple factors, without any one of these, there would have been no accident, or at least no deaths - poorly fastened load (lack of training, poor rack design, driver carelessness, bump in road could have contributed) - Driver suddenly braked to avoid it (not looking ahead, poor training, tired, talking to passengers, unfamiliar with car and braked harder than intended,who knows?) - Truck ran into the back of it (driver not looking ahead, tired, following too closely).

It is difficult to lay the blame for the accident on any one person; the bloke who lost the ladder may be charged - but did he fasten it? Did he do what he was trained to do? It is unlikely the Yaris driver will be charged, but she probably did have safer alternatives than heavy braking. The truck driver is likely to be charged, but may escape conviction is my guess. Reminds me of the time a car ran up the back of the 110 when I braked suddenly to avoid a jay walking blind pedestrian. Fortunately this was at low speed, but the Corolla did not look too good, and I had to wipe some white paint off the tow bar.

John

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Originally Posted by mudmouse

But it's been 2/3 lanes for over a decade and people still drive like they're the only people on the road. ...

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Matt.

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Matt

Yes it has been 2 or 3 lanes for more than a decade, but the day it opened it was inadequate. Who would build a major urban motorway into the city with the largest metropolitan population in the country and make that road have the same number of lanes that it had between Goulburn and Yass.

You only have to drive from the NSW Border to the Sunshine Coast or around Melbourne's Metropolitan Ring Road to see how much safer the 4 lanes each way are for the variety of traffic travelling at various speeds and skills. You have so much choice of lane, can plan a move to an adjacent lane or just sit in a lane without disrupting other traffic.

Personally I didn't take much notice of how poor Sydney's expensive motorways were until I drove the Gold Coast's free motorway to Brisbane, even the Gateway Bridge is exceptionally cheap by Sydney standards.

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Originally Posted by tonic

These litle conversations can get messy and at the risk of being harsh, dont blam the truck driver unless you were there. It is an impossible situation on a multi lane road to keep any distance from the cars in front. As soon as you move back 3 cars pull in front. It is car drivers that need to learn to stay away from trucks. OK OK, there are cowboys. I am not and I'd like to take you for a drive on the M1 on the Gold Coast with a wide load and you can teach me how to stay back, it cant be done.

A small car slams on it's brakes 100m from you and unless you can swerve without taking out the cars beside, you are going to hit that small car in a B Double. Thankfully I dont have to steer one of those and most of the time I am in a drilling rig not driving.

Those bungy cords have not been any good since the 70's and even then they were dangerous. They should not be allowed for tying down loads. There are now plenty of clamps available for those who cannot tie knots.

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You are right tonic. I was a little hasty in posting my thoughts. I hold a heavy rigid license so I do have some idea of how hard it is for a large vehicle in heavy traffic to maintain a proper stopping distance. I was thinking more along the lines of some of the trucks that I have had "up my clacker" - it's a scary concept when I'm in my Smart Roadster. Driving a car like that makes to very aware of your road position.

Like you say, these conversations do get a little messy. I should learn to stay away ;).

James.

Re Bungey straps, most are rubbish but some,even some cheap ones have strong hooks. I make my own bungey straps with these hooks by slicing up rings from old truck tyre inner tubes and looping them together to the length desired.Michelin tubes are best and resist UV deterioration much better than other brands tried.
Because the rubber isn't covered it is easy to keep an eye on their condition to avoid any nasty incidents due to failure.
Not an original idea of mine but something I read about in a book many years ago about an overland tour operator in Africa.
Bill.

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Originally Posted by John W

Sorry but I object to road conditions being blamed for accidents. It is road user behaviour that is 99.9% responsible for accidents and probably less than 0.1% from unforeseeable other failures. The road is inanimate so look before you drive on it, if you can not see the pot holes or off camber or oil slick then slow down.

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What an inane statement, maybe we should have a man walk in front of every vehicle checking for hazards; hey...he could cary a red flag to warn pedestrians and horses. I've never slowed down to miss unseen flying saucers, nor have I ever hit one.
All the truckie bashers have immediately jumped to the conclusion that the truck was tailgating. A more likely scenario is that the truck was in the left lane, where trucks normally travel; the car was in any lane but the left lane, as cars appear terrified of catching some dreaded lurgy from the left lane; when the car swerved under panic braking, into the path of the truck. And to all the 'holier than thou', do you keep the legal distance behind traffic in congested or semi-congested conditions? Any one who says yes is deluding themselves, or going backwards. Drivers who try to maintain a legal distance are constantly cut in front of.

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

If there were 4 lanes in each direction, like on the Gold Coast or the Metropolitan Ring Road in Melbourne, the vehicles have room to spread out and don't have to squeeze into any space you find even though it is in front of a fully laden semi travelling at the speed limit.

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Hate to say it, but, the M1 on the Gold Coast is now at 110% in peak times. 4 Lanes does nothing to help in a truck in these times, in fact it is a nightmare. If I am going on it in our low loader I will wait until after 9 or go at 4 or 5, morning that is.

There is land beside the M1 for a transport corridor for trucks, but like everything else that was going to happen in Qld before Joh got out, it has been put on the back burner and now we have to money.

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Originally Posted by tonic

Hate to say it, but, the M1 on the Gold Coast is now at 110% in peak times. 4 Lanes does nothing to help in a truck in these times, in fact it is a nightmare. If I am going on it in our low loader I will wait until after 9 or go at 4 or 5, morning that is.
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Peak periods are always going to be a nightmare, just imagine your M1 on the Gold Coast with just 2 lanes each way. The M5 east tunnel is considered the only place in Sydney where you can get all day under cover parking for free.

Remember that the M5 directly supports 1.2 million residents just in the adjacent LGA, and that does not include others from the southern highlands or outer west who may divert from the M4/M7 corridor to the M5 to get to the city, or the fact that the M5 is the main transport corridor from Port Botany to the rest of NSW.