landrovers.... not what they used to be...

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Originally Posted by Beckford

Maybe the Puma's (Fords) are sick of Disco's (Taxi's) not waving.

I will keep waving at all LR badged vehicles! Big hand for series I, II, III, Defenders, Puma's (Fords) and Classic Range Rovers. 2 fingers for Disco's (Taxi's).

Did a run over the Blue Mountains Friday / Saturday. Got waves from everything except Disco's (Taxi's).

Where I grew up everyone waved at each other in any vehicle on local roads.....

Puma (Ford) Driver.

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Thats why I always wave from the luxury of my "Storm" to the Fords with a single finger. :D

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Originally Posted by Mick-Kelly

As an interesting perspective imagine for a moment that all of the land rovers prior to the td5 models never existed. All you have is td5 and PUMA. Now in that reality what is a land rover? what makes it different from a patrol, mitsubishi or land cruiser?
Without its heritage it is nothing special. The older models of 'true land rovers' are the source of the emotional value of modern land rovers. Without the ability to trade on the emotions intrinsically linked to the heritage of the brand they are just another vehicle. Sure they do a good job when stacked up against the other modern vehicles in their own way but they will never have that special indefinable element that makes them worthy as historical icons. No one will put a PUMA on a pedestal as a vehicle that did something unique or contributed to the development of the world. Its just another vehicle that gets traded off once the lease has run out. They will become second,third or fourth hand beaters until the cost of maintaining the complicated mechanical and electrical system becomes uneconomic when they will be relegated to scrap.

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I understand what you're saying, but I don't think that all LR enthusiasts approach LR from that perspective. The earlier models were irrelevant to me when I first became involved and my attraction to them is purely from a meccano point of view rather than anything else.

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Originally Posted by juddy

... drive with your own bulge out front and you may get more than a wave.

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I like your thinking. :D

I love my Defender, 2010 built in the UK not India, old folk with your fear of electricity, got to love you don't we.... My car has flaws but I don't care, if I had another 55k to spend I would not get another one as I will have this one for a long long time.

The electricity and all that fandangled magical electronics stuff that runs through my car must be non existent seeing as if I had any it would be causing me nothing but trouble.

I love my Land Rover..

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Originally Posted by Mick-Kelly

I guess that is where i am different to the modern crowd. I have driven a PUMA and i have a 63 year old series one sitting in my garage two metres from where i am typing this. MY opinion is that the PUMA is no different to the new mini or FJ. Just a vehicle that tries to look like it shares styling with the old 'true' versions. I like the smell, hot floor. non synchro box and all weather interior of the old land rover. Its called character. I dont think the PUMA has any right to claim an association with those older vehicles. They are made in India or wherever and they are simply just another throw away car. In all honesty after driving a PUMA if someone gave it too me for free i would sell it. I have zero interest in them but i have all of the time in the world for anything leaf sprung wearing a land rover badge.

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Incorrect. My Puma was made in England!

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Originally Posted by Mick-Kelly

Yep i just cant see a group of blokes standing around and leaning on an old wreck of a 2012 puma in some farmers barn getting misty eyed and then having to sleep in the dog house because they trailered it home to restore and their wives found out. These days the vehicles get traded in when the ash trays full and a farmer wouldnt own one (or couldnt afford one) anyway. Times have changed and people have changed as well. The days of the true land rover are long gone.

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I agree that times have changed;

1. My wife would prefer me to be in my shed tinkering with my series I's or on a trip in my Puma, rather than be down the pub.

2. Puma's do not have ash trays. Smoking is now considered to be bad for you.

3. Puma's are cheaper than a Hilux's modified to the same specification.

4. What makes the Puma not a "True Land Rover"? They said similar things about the Classic Range Rover, which has had the single biggest impact on 4wd's in general.

I have Land Rovers built in a number of era's starting from the 80".

Everything up to my most recent D4 acquisition can be re-built with regular hand tools and kept going with generic parts.

The D4 is an awsome vehicle, but I have great fears that it won't be able to be maintained as long as all the other Land Rovers in the collection.

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

I have Land Rovers built in a number of era's starting from the 80".

Everything up to my most recent D4 acquisition can be re-built with regular hand tools and kept going with generic parts.

The D4 is an awsome vehicle,

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but I have great fears that it won't be able to be maintained as long as all the other Land Rovers in the collection.

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isn't that the point these days though...the car has to work long enough for you to say "yep it was a good car" but not long enough that you dont go out and buy another one.

I tell you what gets me worried echoing Dianas post, the D3 manual also has a sensor to detect clutch pedal travel/ throw. IF you replace ANY hydraulic cylinders OR the clutch as a unit, then guess what??? it has to be recalibrated to avoid lights and bells and warning messages and worst case a 'special programs, power reduced' fault. Coupled with the same for the steering angle sensor which if faulted stops EAS functions and DSC/HDC/TC/etc. I am over this degree of electronic control in a so called offroad vehicle.

It is a fantastic performer, on and offroad, and the degree of engineering is astounding but COME ON, these 2 little issues are enough to get it flat trayed to a dealer from wherever:mad::mad:

theres my 2c rant:)

My advice to ALL D3/4/RRS owners is GET A MSV FAULTMATE and take it everywhere, especially on touring holidays.

JC

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Originally Posted by justinc

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My advice to ALL D3/4/RRS owners is GET A MSV FAULTMATE and take it everywhere, especially on touring holidays.

JC

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And there's the rub. You wouldn't take a 50 yr old LR on a long trip without a toolbox, why then would you want

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Originally Posted by Yorkshire_Jon

And there's the rub. You wouldn't take a 50 yr old LR on a long trip without a toolbox, why then would you want

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I agree Jon, but some may not have grasped yet the degree in which the electronic tendrils have a grip on even basic operations of these modern vehicles.

I'm not knocking the engineering, it is amazing; just frustrating.

JC

Another member of our ZA LRO forum has just taken his Solihull-built Puma Defender back and left it on the dealer floor. This is a LR veteran that has owned 300TDi, TD5 and Puma engine versions.

The problems experienced in South Africa (among others)

- diff problems
- major unfixable oil leaks (not minor LR territory markers!)
- skew chassis/suspension dimensions
- gearbox failures

Now it's fine if the vehicle has a 3 year warranty, but I think if the vehicle spends half the time in the workshop?

It would appear that the "colonies" should go back to self assembly via the CKD method?