Thread: Snatch strap misuse danger

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

Thats a pretty rich thing to say, i will clarify what i meant though, i was basically talking about things kids learn growing up on a farm, like not supporting things on a jack, the basics. But i challenge you to find me a training program on recovery of ~30 tonne machinery that is available to an 18 year old CIVILIAN that doesn't cost the end of the earth

Advanced rigging, nope it costs the earth and it has prerequisites, why? because you need experience in the field at lower levels because of the inherent risks involved and they dont want to have to teach you to crack eggs before you try to suck them

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

as to having time up i think the concentrated practice i had was suffucuent for a 6 week period, considering i did multiple snatches ever day. As a military man i would assume (please disregard if i am wrong) that getting the job done safely in any time frame would be of your highest priority,

As safely as possible as quickly as possible is usually the go

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

as a person that works in a business where productivity is important i can tell you we don't have the time to rig up a winch system to pull the header out, and some times it simply wouldn't work, the header would continue to break the surface due to the slow motion, the machinery needed to winch the header would be massive and expensive, a 5000 acre farm doesn't have the budget of a government to invest in such machinery.

Ive seen bigger and heavier things than headers pulled out of deeper and uglier stuff than paddocks dont recall ever having seen anyone use a snatch strap for that.. longest setup for a flat ground debog I've ever seen in real life took an hour.

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

i was an Air Force Cadet, but left to focus on the HSC and university, the seargents who were military men took more risks, heck on one bivouac they bogged the bloody Hilux they were using and recovered it in a method that i deemed unsafe on the factory recovery points, these guys were trained with all the fancy mamby pamby courses that the military could put them through, i know them, yet everything they did i deemed unsafe from what i've learnt being on the farm with 'real world' experience.

no they werent, They were airforce, and probably not qualified to use the hilux off road in the first place. And what real world experience, if you had any of that you'd know what was wrong with your paragraph above

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

Call me what you want,

Armchair warrior

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

but i have watched safety course on the internet and in 4wd magazines, everything we do complies with that.

Got the certifications that come with those handy?

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

You may have a skewed perspective of what i am like but i'm not some 'good ole boy' like in the Dukes of Hazzard,

Funny, thats how it comes across

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

i am sophisticated and safety orientated and will only ever do something if it is the best possible method with the available resources, for instance; i recovered 2 people at the beach the other day, 1 person i had to snatch as he was buried well down to his axles and there was not a suitable way for me to stop my Discovery sliding towards his car (i did try) so i could not use the winch to pull him, so i snatched him after i set up his recovery gear properly and showed him what to do, after snatching a 30 tonne header this was the easiest thing i have ever done

So you and your equipment werent adequately prepared ?

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

his mate had his Patrol embodied on a dune, he too wanted to be snatched, but i would not use the snatch strap in this situation, it is too dangerous, as it was off the beach there were some logs and we chocked the Discovery and winched him down. Sure something could go wrong, it does that in life,

why didnt you apply the same technique here, experience (of which you apparenly have plenty) would have shown you that you and use the spare tyres as anchors, dig holes for your front tyres to sit into giving you more anchorage or you could have dug out around his tyres and chassis to get him mobile.

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

with all your military training you probably have just as much risk of killing someone in an accident as i do.

Bet you're wrong

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

If you think i've spoken out of line, call me what you like

inexperienced, bragging, armchair warrior

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

but i will stand my ground for what i believe in and i have experienced, i may only be a month of 18 but technically i have no vote in this situation. I am by no means calling training courses pointless, i have done an advanced driver training course which has helped me a lot, especially with my dune buggy and 4wding hobbies, but if every singles person tha moved a finger had to do a course the world would be a bloody boring place, when i join a 4wd club i WILL be doing a recovery and chainsaw training course as i think its important, but just because i haven't had a bald man with a clipboard tick off that i can use a snatch strap doesn't mean that what i've learnt from people who have is wrong, yes i am on my high horse, but i think i needed to. Just as a bit of a question, do all the doomsayers have experience in all these horrible things that can happen???

usually, YES, and they are usually saying what they are saying because they have had it happen to them or someone else they know and probably care about

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

or is it things you have seen on you-tube by drunk hillbillies that gives you these views, i understand you all have recovery experience, but with snatchstraps? and why do i not have the right to be as experienced as some of you 'experts'.

because of

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

Sorry about the rant haha, but i'm a lot grown up than most adults i know, and have a lot of experience under my belt for being this age,

That statement

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

i'm not your average teenager.

got some very bad news for you, regardless of what you think, Yes you are.

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

Regards
Will

Well i'm over arguing about this, but i would like to meet some of you in the field and see your proper techniques etc. and also show you mine. Then i can evaluate what you are all like as people and you can evaluate me, in my opinion though experience counts more than a 1 or 2 day course under controlled conditions. Don't see who i'm putting in danger though, everyone is at least several hundred metres away in truck or what not, the header driver and i are the only ones there and we are in vehicles, i've seen both cables and snatch straps go off and i see cables as far more dangerous, snatch straps won't cut through metal, that is the reason we use them, also the grip issue in a boggy paddock, we needed at least 4 tractors on drag chains before the snatch strap and these were all neighbours also trying to run a business. If i'm an armchair warrior what is it that makes you not? But i do have a respect for Dave that the others have not earnt, due to the wisdom and helps he has given me on this forum, maybe i can meet you all someday, sure we disagree on this, thats what makes us human, but we are all alike and that is why we are on this forum, maybe something you do i consider extremely unsafe, don't know. Also has anyone ever watch the Camel trophy videos, in ever one i've seen they use snatch straps often with vehicle connected together.

The advantage of traditional recovery equipment like winches, high lift jacks, cales etc is they are slow and steady. The disadvantages are they weigh heaps, cost lots, and must be secured to each vehicle that carries them.

The advantage of snatch straps is they need only strong vehicle attachment points to work, weigh less than a couple of kilos and can be stored in a shopping bag. With skill they can extricate a vehicle in a few moments.

Their other potential disadvantage in that they can be dangerous when misused is obvious. If a gormless noob gets killed by flying shrapnel, well, he won't do it again, will he? Darwinism at work.

Go Mr LR jnr, and prosper. You are obviously a fast learner.

Originally Posted by Tank

Dave if the strap had not been elastic the chain attached to the wheel would not have been catapulted through the back window. When the tyre snagged if a normal strap (not elastic) had been used the chain or strap would have broken and fallen to the ground, it would not have acted like the snatch strap did, Regards Frank.

Have you ever seen a wire rope snap.if it can cut through sheet metal it wont fall to the ground.rule 1 of cables dont stand near it.the only way to stop the whip is to use a solid bar or timber.often poeple tie heavy wieghts to absorb enertia along the cable.

Ive had much less reaction with chains yes they tend to fall to the ground--they mostly damage the tow hooks or fracture --they need to be checked and often break.

Ive never been present when someone has been killed-a few injuries maybe. -the training pictures and case studies and bushman fire side chats are bad enough.
if you read the QLD report at the begining of the thread it list no injuries dirrectly due to RECOVERY CABLES but stupididity.

on a ford forum a new to off road member asked why had he destroyed 2 CV joints in 2 trips into the bush with his courier.
the question was asked had he done off road training course as he missed some basics driving using high touque loads on full lock through ruts--he stated he had and it included very good shovel sesion and basic ropes.

Ive done RFS training with basic recovery--and it confirmed to its best not to ask help from some local members-including instructors.

my job at JRA was assembling PTO drives and putting cables on thomas winch.--
the numbers of wiches i seen since with the pto shaft driven through the sumps or the worm gear pulled through the housings.

recently a local RFS got a 30 000Lb winch for a cat 1. with a rear wheel dropped in a stump hole the winch didnt move it.WARNING 1.
then i was told they hat a D6 and some shovel work and that i should look for damage.

Their other potential disadvantage in that they can be dangerous when misused is obvious. If a gormless noob gets killed by flying shrapnel, well, he won't do it again, will he? Darwinism at work.

Bit of luck there mates wont.

I grew up around saw mills with out oh&s and have 3 digits off due to a motor bike chain,as a kid if you did something stupid like driving a tractor through a wall someone would scare the life from you and you dind do it again.
what do we do now-get in councilling. and do group activity.

military training-as a kid we had APC bogged in the forrest.
camped next to these steel sheds was probably unluky chaps waiting weeks for the rain to go away.

I ve enjoyed this thread as its brought up lots of issues.
as a government employee i have lots of people hanging over my shoulder and method activity statements



this if it works looks dangerous-once the 2 tow cars was in place and bags placed on the straps the cars dove forward spinning on the grass pull the other out of the lake.