One for the fridgies

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30th January 2020, 07:25 PM
PerthDisco

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4bee

I'm not sure it was Refrigerant Gas but Butane or whatever is used to power the equipment other than Mains Electric

'er indoors brought this to my attention with the same query this A.M. People tend to get a tad confused when GAS is mentioned especially with Camping gear. when it could be LPG. Remove the Oxygen in the air & it is time to drop the curtains which unfortunately seems to have happened. Will need to wait on the Coroner's report on this one.

Does LPG have an added odour? Dunno I believe Town Gas does but camping gear? I don't know.

I remember now in the 90s at work one of the fridgies was working over weekend in the freezer hold of a prawn trawler vessel under construction and fell asleep forever.
30th January 2020, 07:46 PM
4bee

That was a real lonely death.

I hope he didn't spoil the catch.
30th January 2020, 10:04 PM
BradC

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4bee

Does LPG have an added odour? Dunno I believe Town Gas does but camping gear? I don't know.

Yeah, ethyl mercaptan. It's a funny chemical. So burning it renders it without odour or residue, but a little known fact seems to be that when exposed to iron oxide it appears to catalyse decomposition. So LPG in a rusty tank can lose its smell over time. It's not a reliable reaction.

I've managed to do it experimentslly by circulating LPG through a rusty bit of iron pipe using a recovery machine, but I've certainly heard cases of it happening spontaneously.

It's one of the really serious issues in illegally using "stenched" hydrocarbons in refrigeration circuits. Exposure to the guts of the compressor can cause the mercaptan to break down and its cleaned up by the dryer leaving a smell free refrigerant for the next poor sod who comes along. No warning. Expect R22 and get R290. Not good.

"Town gas" is also lighter than air, so even though it's stenched it also doesn't pool. Propane and butane both pool.

A tragic accident and a timely warning to keep an eye on 3 way fridges in enclosed environments. Tents, annexes, caravans.....
30th January 2020, 10:16 PM
Tombie

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4bee

Why so Mr Tombs, do they exaggerate & talk Bollocks too? [biggrin]

Leave that to the fishermen [emoji41]
31st January 2020, 05:32 AM
rick130

Quote:

Originally Posted by scarry

its not just driving,its working around and in electrical switchboards,and with super high pressure refrigerant,etc,etc.
Easy to make a mistake that could be harmful,or wreck expensive equipment.

A few years ago,one of my boys fell asleep at a set of traffic lights going to a job.The people in the car behind woke him up,thinking he had had a medical episode.
He was doing long hours and had a young child that was sick,and was up half the night.

We don't do those long hours anymore.The customers can just wait until the next day,unless it is super urgent.Often we would get to an after hours job,and all the stock was in another cold or freezer room anyway.

We also don't program weekend work,unless we absolutely have to.

Although gear does seem to disappear from the shed, for weekenders...[bighmmm]

Oh,but we did work until midnight the other night cleaning strainers and bleeding air from a chilled water system.But that was a had to,as the whole site had no AC.

Further to what Paul has said, doing 12+ hours straight through isn't the issue, it's the bloody sleep depriving ones where the phone rings at anywhere from 11pm through to 3am after working a normal 8+ hour day shift and your normal sleep patterns are broken.
And you back up the next day, and the next...

I still did a 10 hour day yesterday after starting officially at 9:45 (phone calls and emails for half an hour prior to that)
And that was after getting home at quarter to 7 yesterday morning.
I got the fourth year to cover last night so I could get some sleep, I collapsed without a shower, was out for ten hours.

Liquor store coolroom first up needs recharging (found the leak last night but couldn't be arsed hauling the bottle up on the roof of the shopping centre [emoji16] had another job to get to and finish anyway. I'd hit the wall by that stage)
Maybe sort some fans and a drain problem in a dairy case in the adjacent supermarket, then a 40 minute drive to another supermarket to replace the evap fans in an FCU for their admin, (I shouldn't be doing this job today, but it's become political) then a 1.5 hour drive to start replacing a server room AC.
So much for my day off......
31st January 2020, 06:52 AM
scarry

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradC

Expect R22 and get R290. Not good.

There certainly aren't any domestic/camping fridges operating on R22[biggrin]

The volume of R290 or R600 in a domestic/camping refrigerator is way less than than the equivalent amount of R134a/r12 that is needed for the same cabinet.So thats a plus,apart from it being a 'natural' product.

In fact it won't be long before all large self contained(that is not using remote condensing unit), commercial cabinets, are on these natural refrigerants,as there is a worldwide push to use it where possible.Coke are already onto it with their cabinets,here and around the globe.
31st January 2020, 09:29 AM
BradC

Quote:

Originally Posted by scarry

The volume of R290 or R600 in a domestic/camping refrigerator is way less than than the equivalent amount of R134a/r12 that is needed for the same cabinet.So thats a plus,apart from it being a 'natural' product.

The different densities confuse a lot of people. It weighs a lot less but the volume is pretty much the same for the same circuit. Volume for volume the quantity has to be about the same.

Don't get me wrong, I love hydrocarbon refrigerants. My post was purely on the odour reduction and the fact I've seen it used in place of flourinated refrigerants as a drop-in replacement without any of the appropriate warning labels, or in fact any documentation at all.
31st January 2020, 09:43 AM
4bee

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick130

Further to what Paul has said, doing 12+ hours straight through isn't the issue, it's the bloody sleep depriving ones where the phone rings at anywhere from 11pm through to 3am after working a normal 8+ hour day shift and your normal sleep patterns are broken.
And you back up the next day, and the next...

I still did a 10 hour day yesterday after starting officially at 9:45 (phone calls and emails for half an hour prior to that)
And that was after getting home at quarter to 7 yesterday morning.
I got the fourth year to cover last night so I could get some sleep, I collapsed without a shower, was out for ten hours.

Liquor store coolroom first up needs recharging (found the leak last night but couldn't be arsed hauling the bottle up on the roof of the shopping centre [emoji16] had another job to get to and finish anyway. I'd hit the wall by that stage)
Maybe sort some fans and a drain problem in a dairy case in the adjacent supermarket, then a 40 minute drive to another supermarket to replace the evap fans in an FCU for their admin, (I shouldn't be doing this job today, but it's become political) then a 1.5 hour drive to start replacing a server room AC.
So much for my day off......

Fair dos Rick, booze ain't going to go off is it. Well not in the sense of getting a pong, but I bet it still can go off, if you get my drift.
(nudge nudge wink wink.)
I read that & wonder at how you manage to keep up the pace, day in day out in this weather. I doubt I could have done it even in my hey day. :rolleyes:

Buildings & car Parks will have changed immensely, then there is the good ole WH&S **** to contend with, it is wonder you can get anything done at all..

To blokes like you & Paul & others doing this these days I dips me lid guv, I really do.:TakeABow::TakeABow::TakeABow:

General Comment to all Contributors.

It never ceases to amaze me of the knowledge & expertise on AULRO but I suppose it it is just a case of what one was trained in doing but it is the blanket of Trades, Professions & other callings that can astound me some days.

I thank you all.
31st January 2020, 05:25 PM
rick130

Quote:

Originally Posted by scarry

There certainly aren't any domestic/camping fridges operating on R22[biggrin]

The volume of R290 or R600 in a domestic/camping refrigerator is way less than than the equivalent amount of R134a/r12 that is needed for the same cabinet.So thats a plus,apart from it being a 'natural' product.

In fact it won't be long before all large self contained(that is not using remote condensing unit), commercial cabinets, are on these natural refrigerants,as there is a worldwide push to use it where possible.Coke are already onto it with their cabinets,here and around the globe.

All Aldi freezers are R290 [emoji6]
31st January 2020, 05:30 PM
rick130

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradC

The different densities confuse a lot of people. It weighs a lot less but the volume is pretty much the same for the same circuit. Volume for volume the quantity has to be about the same.

Don't get me wrong, I love hydrocarbon refrigerants. My post was purely on the odour reduction and the fact I've seen it used in place of flourinated refrigerants as a drop-in replacement without any of the appropriate warning labels, or in fact any documentation at all.

I think we've all seen that.
I had a roo chiller once without any warnings, notices, etc. running on HC.
Can you imagine a shooter rocking in at 1am with a cigie hanging out of the corner of his mouth, opens the chiller door (ex shipping container) and there'd been a leak in the blower?

I put it back on 134a

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