Thread: One for the fridgies

Originally Posted by rick130

I'm think I'm too old for this new fangled stuff, too!

One of the Stadiums we do,they have all of a sudden found some $$.

There are around 60 systems with huge pipe runs,the units are copland semi's,just a pump down,nice and simple.
They are about 20yrs old and going well,we have replaced any rattly compressors,shagged condenser fans,contacters,etc.
As they are now,they are very reliable.

They have got some consultant on the job and want to replace them with a few huge condensing units on VSD's,operating three,four or five evaporaters each.

So i said when one breaks down there will now be a heap of evaps not going?
So we could lose one complete kitchen of cold rooms?Or all the huge keg rooms in one area,these rooms hold between 300 to 600 kegs each,and hold the glycol chillers.
So they say they don't break down.FFS

oh,i say ,what happens when there is a refrigerant leak,instead of looking over one system,there is pipework,and evaps all over the place?
And the quantity that is held in these systems would be huge.
No answer from them.

And what is happening to the freezer rooms?
We haven't decided yet, they say,maybe two rooms on one unit.

Maybe one unit on each evap i say.

The site will save some power they recon.

And well and truly pay for it in repairs i recon.

So,looks like we are going to end up with a heap of complicated crap on this site.

What a PITA.

It maybe fine for a few years,but once it starts getting a bit of age on it,its going to be a nightmare.
I bet the condensers don't last anywhere near as long as the current ones.

Oh well,what do you do.

They are payed the big bucks,and know better.......

Originally Posted by scarry

One of the Stadiums we do,they have all of a sudden found some $$.

There are around 60 systems with huge pipe runs,the units are copland semi's,just a pump down,nice and simple.
They are about 20yrs old and going well,we have replaced any rattly compressors,shagged condenser fans,contacters,etc.
As they are now,they are very reliable.

They have got some consultant on the job and want to replace them with a few huge condensing units on VSD's,operating three,four or five evaporaters each.

So i said when one breaks down there will now be a heap of evaps not going?
So we could lose one complete kitchen of cold rooms?Or all the huge keg rooms in one area,these rooms hold between 300 to 600 kegs each,and hold the glycol chillers.
So they say they don't break down.FFS

oh,i say ,what happens when there is a refrigerant leak,instead of looking over one system,there is pipework,and evaps all over the place?
And the quantity that is held in these systems would be huge.
No answer from them.

And what is happening to the freezer rooms?
We haven't decided yet, they say,maybe two rooms on one unit.

Maybe one unit on each evap i say.

The site will save some power they recon.

And well and truly pay for it in repairs i recon.

So,looks like we are going to end up with a heap of complicated crap on this site.

What a PITA.

It maybe fine for a few years,but once it starts getting a bit of age on it,its going to be a nightmare.
I bet the condensers don't last anywhere near as long as the current ones.

Oh well,what do you do.

They are payed the big bucks,and know better.......

Much better off using a chiller/secondary refrigerant if they want to centralise plant.
Reduces refrigerant levels significantly, makes keeping control of leaks, etc much more manageable.
Far less power consumption with a chiller setup too (and the major advantage of the trans-critical setup)
The downside is as you say, unless using a rack with spare capacity you lose a lot if the system goes down.

I could share more with you more about the downsides of this offline, but saying they don't breakdown??
QC, even with the big boys isn't what it was, I have some interesting stories from the York and Trane boys from only the last month.

Originally Posted by rick130

Much better off using a chiller/secondary refrigerant if they want to centralise plant.
Reduces refrigerant levels significantly, makes keeping control of leaks, etc much more manageable.
Far less power consumption with a chiller setup too (and the major advantage of the trans-critical setup)
The downside is as you say, unless using a rack with spare capacity you lose a lot if the system goes down.

I could share more with you more about the downsides of this offline, but saying they don't breakdown??
QC, even with the big boys isn't what it was, I have some interesting stories from the York and Trane boys from only the last month.

Probably on a new job plant,yes i agree,chiller,secondary refrigerant.

A mate does a lot of that in large processing plants,using ammonia chillers,and glycol at -10 degrees.The glycol is used for all the AC units on site as well as refrigeration,but freezers are still DX ammonia.Its amazing the way it all works.

But now,rerunning pipework,on this site, is a massive job,and cost.The majority of the systems have pipework runs over 30m,some 45M.
Most of the pipework is not accessible either,been installed when the place was built.
And all the evaps would probably have to be replaced as well.

Yes i know,they never break down...............

If they didn't,we would be out of work

i was talking to some Carrier guys the other day,as we have some new carrier chillers on a site,yes they have some stories.
Those new chillers are amazing as well,the way they are engineered and designed.

The list should probably include "In an emergency please do not attend but run like buggery inland"


Old school is right.... "aka garden hose played on hot bits...." & also run like buggery just in case you didn't catch it in time.

I bet you wish for the good olde days of noisy vibrating Summit Semis (No Racks, just a concrete floor in a plant room somewhere) Sporlan/Danfoss TEVs, Noisy rattling casing fans that go ignored for weeks by staff, parking your truck outside of the Plant Room door not miles away, sharing a brew up with staff & free biscuits.

Yep, that is about it.

I do believe I am having a little nostalgic weep here. (or maybe I have ****ed my pants)

Oh well,what do you do.

That little saying reminds me of the many times me & my sparky were faced with what appeared to be an insurmountable problem but somehow we always found a solution if we spent a lot of wasted time trying to.


Ah Happy Days.

Still lots and lots of Sporlan and Danfoss TX valves around Des.

Still setting superheats the old fashioned way, still lots of EPR's on these supermarket systems too to make you feel right at home

Not everything has gone full electronic yet....

Originally Posted by rick130

Still lots and lots of Sporlan and Danfoss TX valves around Des.

Still setting superheats the old fashioned way, still lots of EPR's on these supermarket systems too to make you feel right at home

Not everything has gone full electronic yet....

Thank **** for that

I notice this new refrigerant for Low Temp,R448,or it could be R488,some are having trouble with high discharge temps.

So they are saying electronic TX valves are the best way to get the superheat correct,and the discharge temp parameters somewhere where they should be.

Sounds like fun and games again....

Des,i had my old R12/502/22 capillary chart out today to work out a capillary for a Williams cabinet on R404a.Just use R502,works fine every time.
So old school still works best at times.

And yes we use Danfoss solder TX valves on every job,if selected correctly,never have to set the superheat,except at times on extremely long pipe runs,often freezers,just to get the return gas and discharge temps where they should be.

Rick, you nearly had me by the balls re EPR. That required a bit of guessing on my part but all of a sudden it was back in my head from aprox 50 years ago. I was determined Google wasn't going to be my friend.

Paul, you just reminded me about the stable setting of correctly sized Danfoss TEVs. No faffing around, just install & 99% of the time one didn't need to touch them.

Williams Cabinets, now that is a blast from the past. He/they must have made thousands of cabinets & I bet you can still find them all over OZ in one form or another.

All those new R numbers sound like my bank balance, a pity they ain't got more 00000000000s

On the domestic side & as a matter of " quirky interest", have you ever come across the BHR Table Refrigerator? Probably not.

"Brodie, Heinamann Refrigeration". It was part of Airflow Refrigerators, makers of Domestic type Refrigerators.

It was a refrigerator designed & built near here at Crafers in the Adelaide Hills circa 1950. The building is still there, now a Glaziers, Carpenters, Motor Mechanics etc..

Consisted of a centre self contained open unit refrigerated section (which blew room air over one's feet) over which was dropped a "table" aprox. 8" thick. This contained an air duct around the perimeter with small drop down flaps at each seating possie usually 6.
The centre section contained a recirc. fan to feed the duct & there were 2 lift top lids in the centre of the table for access to stuff below.

So what you did, was place prepared meals (salads, beer etc) through the side flaps & wait for the family or guests to arrive & then one's meal was immediately available & nice & cold. Not much good for a Sunday Roast though.

If you wanted stuff from under the centre section you had to clear off the top lid & retrieve it.

The whole cabinet was made from plywood including the air Duct section wich was clad in Laminex

The idea was "great" in theory but it was soooooo impractical, but for the '50s it was the dog's bollocks & so new. WOW!


Have tried over the years to locate something of it online but no joy & probably there will never be now.



Sorry, what was the question?

No,never heard of those fridges.

A couple of guys i knew would have,but unfortunately they have moved on,they used to talk about the days there was petrol rationing,so that would give you an idea of their age.

They had both been in domestic refrigeration all their lives.

Gee they had some stories to tell