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Thread: Who are the Taliban? Know your enemy.

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    Who are the Taliban? Know your enemy.

    Who are the Taliban?

    The Taliban are active in both Afghanistan and Pakistan
    Continue reading the main story
    The hardline Islamic Taliban movement has proved to be a formidable fighting force in Afghanistan and a major threat to its government.
    The Taliban also threatens to destabilise Pakistan, where they control areas in the north-west and have been blamed for a wave of suicide bombings and other attacks.
    Many observers now believe that future peace in Afghanistan can only come if the government in Kabul negotiates with the Taliban.
    The announcement of Taliban plans to open an office in Qatar is seen as a positive step in those negotiations, but mistrust on both sides remains high.
    There has also been speculation that some of the Taliban-linked groups in Pakistan have held talks with the government in Islamabad - although this is not confirmed.
    Austere rule
    The Taliban emerged in the early 1990s in northern Pakistan following the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan.
    A predominantly Pashtun movement, the Taliban came to prominence in Afghanistan in the autumn of 1994.
    It is commonly believed that they first appeared in religious seminaries - mostly paid for by money from Saudi Arabia - which preached a hard line form of Sunni Islam.
    The Taliban's promise - in Pashtun areas straddling Pakistan and Afghanistan - was to restore peace and security and enforce their own austere version of Sharia, or Islamic law, once in power.
    In both countries they introduced or supported Islamic punishments - such as public executions of convicted murderers and adulterers and amputations of those found guilty of theft.
    Men were required to grow beards and women had to wear the all-covering burka.
    The Taliban banned television, music and cinema and disapproved of girls aged 10 and over from going to school.
    Continue reading the main story THE TALIBAN

    • Emerged in Afghanistan in 1994
    • Mainly supported by ethnic Pashtuns
    • Toppled after US-led invasion of Afghanistan in 2001
    • Fugitive leader Mullah Omar wanted, whereabouts unknown
    Pakistan has repeatedly denied that it is the architect of the Taliban enterprise.
    But there is little doubt that many Afghans who initially joined the movement were educated in madrassas (religious schools) in Pakistan.
    Pakistan was also one of only three countries, along with Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (UAE), which recognised the Taliban when they were in power in Afghanistan from the mid-1990s until 2001.
    It was also the last country to break diplomatic ties with the Taliban.
    But Pakistan has since adopted a harder line against Taliban militants carrying out attacks on its soil.
    The attention of the world was drawn to the Taliban in Afghanistan following the attacks on the World Trade Centre in September 2001.
    The Taliban in Afghanistan were accused of providing a sanctuary to Osama Bin Laden and the al-Qaeda movement who were blamed for the attacks.
    Soon after 9/11 the Taliban were driven from power in Afghanistan by a US-led coalition, although their leader Mullah Mohammad Omar was not captured.
    Foreign forces have poured into Afghanistan in an effort to crush the insurgency
    In recent years the Taliban have re-emerged in Afghanistan and grown far stronger in Pakistan, where observers say there is loose co-ordination between different Taliban factions and militant groups.
    The main Pakistani faction is led by Hakimullah Mehsud, whose Tehrik Taliban Pakistan (TTP) is blamed for dozens of suicide bombings and other attacks.
    Observers warn against over-stating the existence of one unified insurgency against the Pakistani state, however.
    The Taliban in Afghanistan are still believed to be led by Mullah Omar, a village clergyman who lost his right eye fighting the occupying forces of the Soviet Union in the 1980s.
    Afghans, weary of the mujahideen's excesses and infighting after the Soviets were driven out, generally welcomed the Taliban when they first appeared on the scene.
    Their early popularity was largely due to their success in stamping out corruption, curbing lawlessness and making the roads and the areas under their control safe for commerce to flourish.
    US onslaught
    From south-western Afghanistan, the Taliban quickly extended their influence.
    The Afghan people are weary of conflict
    They captured the province of Herat, bordering Iran, in September 1995.
    Exactly one year later, they captured the Afghan capital, Kabul, after overthrowing the regime of President Burhanuddin Rabbani and his defence minister, Ahmed Shah Masood.
    By 1998, they were in control of almost 90% of Afghanistan.
    They were accused of various human rights and cultural abuses. One notorious example was in 2001, when the Taliban went ahead with the destruction of the famous Bamiyan Buddha statues in central Afghanistan, despite international outrage.
    On October 7, 2001, a US-led military coalition invaded Afghanistan and by the first week of December the Taliban regime had collapsed.
    Mullah Omar and his comrades have evaded capture despite one of the largest manhunts in the world.
    They are generally thought to be taking refuge in the Pakistani city of Quetta, from where they are guiding the resurgent Taliban.
    But the existence of what is dubbed the "Quetta Shura" is denied by Islamabad.
    Despite ever higher numbers of foreign troops, the Taliban have steadily extended their influence, rendering vast tracts of Afghanistan insecure, and violence in the country has returned to levels not seen since 2001.
    Their retreat earlier this decade enabled them to limit their human and material losses and return with a vengeance.
    I’m pretty sure the dinosaurs died out when they stopped gathering food and started having meetings to discuss gathering food

    A bookshop is one of the only pieces of evidence we have that people are still thinking

  2. #2
    zedcars Guest
    Bob
    Good overview.
    I went to Afghanistan in 1976/77 period when I worked in Tehran running the plant for Leyland Motors Iran.
    In those days it was a very safe country to visit and there was even a regular adventure style London Style double decker bus service running through the country en route from London to Sydney.

    The rot started when the Soviets started a coup d'etat to implement communism and then invaded.

    Already having regional warlords this created the Muhajadeen being supported by the CIA and others to counter the Soviet occupation. All this has since morphed into the Taliban and Mullah Omar.
    Mullah Omar : WarlordsofAfghanistan.com

    In short we--By that I mean the Western powers are responsible for most of this and the USA has to take the lion's share of the blame for where we are today.
    It leaves me to comment on that oft said phrase "he who ignores history is destined to repeat it" or something like it!

    After all we Brits tried to control it three times in the 19th century and failed. I suppose the Yanks and the Reds didn't study much British history, or they ignored it!
    I could elaborate further but its material for the soapbox forum.
    Cheers Dennis
    zedcars

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    A report on the first British invasion of Afganistan, Bob

    Britain's Disastrous Retreat from Kabul

    In 1842 Afghanistan Massacre, Only One British Soldier Survived

    By Robert McNamara,

    Afghan Leader Dost Mohammed, circa 1830s
    John Murray Publisher/public domain
    19th Century Hisotory

    In the 1800s, the British controlled India, and the Russians, to the north, had their own designs on southern Asia. Between these two imperial powers sat the rugged land of Afghanistan. In time the periodic collisions of empire in that unforgiving landscape would become known as “The Great Game.”
    One of the earliest eruptions in this epic struggle was the first Anglo-Afghan War, which had its beginning in the late 1830s. To protect its holdings in India, the British had allied themselves with an Afghan ruler, Dost Mohammed.
    He had united warring Afghan factions after seizing power in 1818, and seemed to be serving a useful purpose to the British. But in 1837, it became apparent that Dost Mohammed was beginning a flirtation with the Russians. Britain Invaded Afghanistan in the Late 1830s


    The British resolved to invade Afghanistan, and the Army of the Indus, a formidable force of more than 20,000 British and Indian troops, set off from India for Afghanistan in late 1838. After difficult travel through the mountain passes, the British reached Kabul in April 1839. They marched unopposed into the Afghan capital city.
    Dost Mohammed was toppled as the Afghan leader, and the British installed Shah Shuja, who had been driven from power decades earlier. The original plan was to withdraw all the British troops, but Shah Shuja’s hold on power was shaky, so two brigades of British troops had to remain in Kabul.
    Along with the British Army were two major figures assigned to essentially guide the government of Shah Shuja, Sir William McNaghten and Sir Alexander Burnes. The men were two well-known and very experienced political officers. Burnes had lived in Kabul previously, and had written a book about his time there.
    The British forces staying in Kabul could have moved into an ancient fortress overlooking the city, but Shah Shuja believed that would make it look like the British were in control. Instead, the British built a new cantonment, or base, that would prove very difficult to defend. Sir Alexander Burnes, feeling quite confident, lived outside the cantonment, in a house in Kabul. The Afghans Revolted Against the British in Late 1841


    The Afghan population deeply resented the British troops. Tensions slowly escalated, and despite warnings from friendly Afghans that an uprising was inevitable, the British were unprepared in November 1841 when an insurrection broke out in Kabul.
    A mob encircled the house of Sir Alexander Burnes. The British diplomat tried to offer the crowd money to disburse, to no effect. The lightly defended residence was overrun. Burnes and his brother were both brutally murdered.
    The British troops in the city were greatly outnumbered and unable to defend themselves properly, as the cantonment was encircled.
    A truce was arranged in late November, and it seems the Afghans simply wanted the British to leave the country. But tensions escalated when the son of Dost Mohammed, Muhammad Akbar Khan, appeared in Kabul, and took a harder line. The British Were Forced to Flee Afghanistan


    Sir William McNaghten, who had been trying to negotiate a way out of the city, was murdered on December 23, 1841, reportedly by Muhammad Akbar Khan himself. The British, their situation hopeless, somehow managed to negotiate a treaty to leave Afghanistan.
    On January 6, 1842, the British began their withdrawal from Kabul. Leaving the city were 4,500 British troops and 12,000 civilians who had followed the British Army to Kabul. The plan was to march to Jalalabad, about 90 miles away.
    The retreat in the brutally cold weather took an immediate toll, and many died from exposure in the first days. And despite the treaty, the British column came under attack when it reached a mountain pass, the Khurd Kabul. The retreat became a massacre. Slaughter in the Mountain Passes of Afghanistan


    A magazine based in Boston, the North American Review, published a remarkably extensive and timely account titled “The English in Afghanistan” six months later, in July 1842. It contained this vivid description (some antiquated spellings have been left intact):
    On the 6th of January, 1842, the Caboul forces commenced their retreat through the dismal pass, destined to be their grave. On the third day they were attacked by the mountaineers from all points, and a fearful slaughter ensued…
    The troops kept on, and awful scenes ensued. Without food, mangled and cut to pieces, each one caring only for himself, all subordination had fled; and the soldiers of the forty-fourth English regiment are reported to have knocked down their officers with the butts of their muskets. On the 13th of January, just seven days after the retreat commenced, one man, bloody and torn, mounted on a miserable pony, and pursued by horsemen, was seen riding furiously across the plains to Jellalabad. That was Dr. Brydon, the sole person to tell the tale of the passage of Khourd Caboul.
    More than 16,000 people had set out on the retreat from Kabul, and in the end only one man, Dr. William Brydon, a British Army surgeon, had made it alive to Jalalabad.
    The garrison there lit signal fires and sounded bugles to guide other British survivors to safety, but after several days they realized that Brydon would be the only one. It was believed the Afghans let him live so he could tell the grisly story. The Retreat from Kabul Was a Severe Blow to British Pride


    The loss of so many troops to mountain tribesmen was, of course, a bitter humiliation for the British. With Kabul lost, a campaign was mounted to evacuate the rest of the British troops from garrisons in Afghanistan, and the British then withdrew from the country entirely.
    And while popular legend held that Dr. Brydon was the only survivor from the horrific retreat from Kabul, some British troops and their wives had been taken hostage by Afghans and were later rescued and released. And a few other survivors turned up over the years. One account, in a history of Afghanistan by former British diplomat Sir Martin Ewans, contends that in the 1920s two elderly women in Kabul were introduced to British diplomats. Astoundingly, they had been on the retreat as babies. Their British parents had apparently been killed, but they had been rescued and brought up by Afghan families
    I’m pretty sure the dinosaurs died out when they stopped gathering food and started having meetings to discuss gathering food

    A bookshop is one of the only pieces of evidence we have that people are still thinking

  4. #4
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    The second British invasion of Afganistan. That place certainly has some history, Bob

    Britain's Second War in Afghanistan Was Marked by Miscalculations and Heroics

    A British Invasion in the Late 1870s Eventually Stabilized Afghanistan

    By Robert McNamara, About.com Guide


    Sir Louis Cavagnari, whose death marked a major event in the Second Anglo-Afghan War
    courtesy New York Public Library





    The Second Anglo-Afghan War began when Britain invaded Afghanistan for reasons that had less to do with the Afghans than with the Russian Empire.
    The feeling in London in the 1870s was that the competing empires of Britain and Russia were bound to clash in central Asia at some point, with Russia's eventual goal being the invasion and seizure of Britain's prize possession, India.
    British strategy, which would eventually become known as "The Great Game," was focused on keeping Russian influence out of Afghanistan, which could become Russia's stepping-stone to India.
    In 1878 the popular British magazine Punch summed up the situation in a cartoon depicting a wary Sher Ali, the Amir of Afghanistan, caught between a growling British lion and a hungry Russian bear.
    When the Russians sent an envoy to Afghanistan in July 1878, the British were greatly alarmed. They demanded that the Afghan government of Sher Ali accept a British diplomatic mission. The Afghans refused, and the British government decided to launch a war in late 1878.
    The British had actually invaded Afghanistan from India decades earlier. The First Anglo-Afghan War ended disastrously with an entire British army making a horrendous winter retreat from Kabul in 1842. The British Invade Afghanistan in 1878


    British troops from India invaded Afghanistan in late 1878, with a total of about 40,000 troops advancing in three separate columns. The British Army met resistance from Afghan tribesmen, but was able to control a large part of Afghanistan by the spring of 1879.
    With a military victory in hand, the British arranged for a treaty with the Afghan government. The country's strong leader, Sher Ali, had died, and his son Yakub Khan, had ascended to power.
    The British envoy Major Louis Cavagnari, who had grown up in British-controlled India as the son of an Italian father and an Irish mother, met Yakub Khan at Gandmak. The resulting Treaty of Gandamak marked the end of the war, and it seemed that Britain had accomplished its objectives.
    The Afghan leader agreed to accept a permanent British mission which would essentially conduct Afghanistan's foreign policy. Britain also agreed to defend Afghanistan against any foreign aggression, meaning any potential Russian invasion.
    The problem was that it had all been too easy. The British did not realize that Yakub Khan was a weak leader who had agreed to conditions which his countrymen would rebel against. A Massacre Begins A New Phase of the Second Anglo-Afghan War


    Cavagnari was something of a hero for negotiating the treaty, and was knighted for his efforts. He was appointed as envoy at the court of Yakub Khan, and in the summer of 1879 he set up a residency in Kabul which was protected by a small contingent of British cavalry.
    Relations with the Afghans began to sour, and in September a rebellion against the British broke out in Kabul. Cavagnari's residence was attacked, and Cavagnari was shot and killed, along with nearly all of the British soldiers tasked to protect him.
    The Afghan leader, Yakub Khan, tried to restore order, and was nearly killed himself. The British Army Crushes the Uprising in Kabul


    A British column commanded by General Frederick Roberts, one of the most capable British officers of the period, marched on Kabul to take revenge.
    After fighting his way to the capital in October 1879, Roberts had a number of Afghans captured and hanged. There were also reports of what amounted to a reign of terror in Kabul as the British avenged the massacre of Cavagnari and his men.
    General Roberts announced that Yakub Khan had abdicated and appointed himself military governor of Afghanistan. With his force of approximately 6,500 men, he settled in for the winter. In early December 1879 Roberts and his men had to fight a substantial battle against attacking Afghans. The British moved out of the city of Kabul and took up a fortified position nearby.
    Roberts wanted to avoid a repeat of the disaster of the British retreat from Kabul in 1842, and remained to fight another battle on December 23, 1879. The British held their position throughout the winter. General Roberts Makes a Legendary March on Kandahar


    In the spring of 1880 a British column commanded by General Stewart marched to Kabul and relieved General Roberts. But when news came that British troops at Kandahar were surrounded and facing grave danger, General Roberts embarked on what would become a legendary military feat.
    With 10,000 men, Roberts marched from Kabul to Kandahar, a distance of about 300 miles, in just 20 days. The British march was generally unopposed, but being able to move that many troops 15 miles a day in the brutal heat of Afghanistan's summer was a remarkable example of discipline, organization, and leadership.
    When General Roberts reached Kandahar he linked up with the British garrison of the city, and the combined British forces inflicted a defeat on the Afghan forces. This marked the end of hostilities in the Second Anglo-Afghan War. The Diplomatic Outcome of the Second Anglo-Afghan War


    As the fighting was winding down, a major player in Afghan politics, Abdur Rahman, the nephew of Sher Ali, who had been Afghanistan's ruler before the war, returned to the country from exile. The British recognized that he might be the strong leader they preferred in the country.
    As General Roberts was making his march to Kandahar, Gerneral Stewart, in Kabul, installed Abdur Rahman as the new leader, the Amir, of Afghanistan.
    Amir Abdul Rahman gave the British what they wanted, including assurances that Afghanistan would not have relations with any nation except Britain. In return, Britain agreed not to meddle in Afghanistan's internal affairs.
    For the final decades of the 19th century Abdul Rahman held the throne in Afghanistan, becoming known as the "Iron Amir." He died in 1901. The Russian invasion of Afghanistan which the British feared in the late 1870s never materialized, and Britain's hold on India remained secure.
    I’m pretty sure the dinosaurs died out when they stopped gathering food and started having meetings to discuss gathering food

    A bookshop is one of the only pieces of evidence we have that people are still thinking

  5. #5
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    Thanks Bob

    A saying attributed to the Taliban and maybe explains why the west will never win there.
    "You have the watches but we have the time."

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    Impressive CV

    Quote Originally Posted by bob10 View Post

    A British column commanded by General Frederick Roberts, one of the most capable British officers of the period,......
    Same General Roberts who won the VC in India, fought in Abyssinia and led the Imperial Forces to victory in South Africa culminating in the signing of the Treaty of Veerininging at Melrose House in Pretoria.

    Despite the old system of purchasing colours being oft lampooned, it did turn out the odd good one. Admittedly, Roberts was born in India which might have had a bearing on his outlook.

    Cheers,

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    Really what I would like to know is do they drive Land Rovers or have any interest in them?

    Isn't talking about the Taliban kind of like talking about politics and religion in one topic? ...

    cheers,
    Terry
    Cheers,
    Terry

    D1 V8 (Gone)
    D2a HSE V8 (Gone)
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    D4 V8

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    well I do appreciate this thread.

    I watched a DVD by a former member of the opposition party in Iran, a man who led Iran because the government wanted to kill him, a man who now lives in Australia.

    Without going into the religious aspect, he said that the problem with being a member of the opposition in all those Muslim Countries is that the Government strongly believes that they were put there by God.

    And so every opposition party member is opposed to God's will, hence they will never accept an opposition party member, and will kill them.

    And so this is the problem with the Taliban. They consider any other party, any one else with any different ideas to them to be opposed to God's will.

    Hence no one else can ever control the country peacably.

    So the war is completely unwinable without wiping out every member of the Taliban, because they believe that every one else who opposes them is not doing God's will, therefore every one else must be wiped out according to all their thinking.

    This is something that most in the west cannot grasp & understand.

    And I cannot say more without risking the wrath of Inc, who may try to wipe me out with a press of a button, if I do bring up the religious aspects of this.

    Inc, hope what I said is not too political, if so sorry, but this is the reason the west cannot ever win in the Iraq/Iran/Afganistan wars.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryO View Post
    Really what I would like to know is do they drive Land Rovers or have any interest in them?

    Isn't talking about the Taliban kind of like talking about politics and religion in one topic? ...

    cheers,
    Terry
    No they drive Toyota Hiluxes and shoot all those who drive Landrovers--see the thread on the Mercedes G-Waggon for some pictures of their hiluxes.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryO View Post
    Really what I would like to know is do they drive Land Rovers or have any interest in them?

    Isn't talking about the Taliban kind of like talking about politics and religion in one topic? ...

    cheers,
    Terry
    No they do drive Toyota Hiluxes and shoot all those who drive Landrovers--see the thread on the Mercedes G-Waggon for some pictures of their hiluxes.

    http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-ch...-hopeless.html

    Start somewhere around page 6 or 7 for these Hilux gunships.

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