Is the problem that I'm not a believer?

**vnx205** · 16th November 2012, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Ferret

Go on, you know you want one.

Land-Rover Discovery 200TDI: When the second unit was fitted, the vehicle was transformed – it runs very well even uphill when cold.

Land-Rover Discovery 300TDI: After using the Hiclone for two weeks on the Discovery, I found it does reduce the turbo lag, enough to convince me to purchase another one.

Land-Rover Discovery 300TDI: I must say I had my doubts before but I actually got about 15% better fuel consumption on the freeway.

I can see what might be possible if I believe strongly enough, but I just can't bring myself to have that much faith.

**vnx205** · 16th November 2012, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by LandyAndy

You is missin 1 cylinder man

Andrew

When I think about how much extra power I have going from a normally aspirated 4 cylinder 2.25 litre petrol engine in the Series III to the turbo-charged 4 cylinder 2.5 litre diesel engine in the 300TDi Defender, I think that having 5 cylinders might be more than I could cope with.

**Blknight.aus** · 16th November 2012, 08:55 PM

you wait till I get down there and give the pump and turbo a little massage work.

you can pull td5 level power out of the tdi300...

**CraigE** · 16th November 2012, 09:34 PM

I have found cooler denser air gives better economy rather than performance. Difference between Newman area and Perth - South West is about 1 litre per 100kms.
Now if I wanted really dense air maybe I should just get in front of it.

Originally Posted by vnx205

I was assuming that the speedo error, which I know is 10%, would not change from day to day.

About the only thing that seems to make a difference is the wind, so I only take notice of the speed on days when there is no wind.

The thing that has been most noticeable is the consistency of the results. Another thing I didn't mention is that a lot of people comment on how well their engine performs when the air is colder and therefore denser. I know there is scientific validity for that claim, but in practice, I don't see an improvement. I have put that down to the fact that all the transmission oils are slightly thicker when the air is cold and that they take longer to warm up in the cold air. It seems that the extra viscosity balances the extra power available from the denser air.

I had hoped that measuring speed would be slightly more accurate that the usual "Gee it goes a lot better since I painted it red" that some people rely on. I found out years ago how useless the mere sensation of performance is. I thought a 2 stroke MT 125cc Honda accelerated much better than my 4 stroke SL 125cc Honda. When we lined up the two bikes side by side, we quickly discovered that the 2 stroke with its peaky power was no faster than the 4 stroke with its smooth, consistent power delivery.

**LandyAndy** · 16th November 2012, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

you wait till I get down there and give the pump and turbo a little massage work.

you can pull td5 level power out of the tdi300...

Standard DEFENDER TD5 power????
Andrew

**rangieman** · 16th November 2012, 11:55 PM

Well i just did the 300Tdi timing belt and a new head well i was there cleaned the intercooler new radiator hoses i reckon i gained 50 kilowasps out of the Tdi , It now goes like the space shuttle now

**Blknight.aus** · 17th November 2012, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by LandyAndy

Standard DEFENDER TD5 power????
Andrew

yep base level td5 output is achievable from the tdi300, chipped td5 power is not, well ok it is but its not sustainable.

theres a little "wiggle room" on the specs of the tdi300 and the td5 depending on which edition of which engine in what configuration you look at but using wikipidea for some generic numbers (and because it was the first place I found that gave a listing for both on one document)

tdi 300

Power: 111 hp (83 kW) @ 4,250 rpm (versions with manual transmission)
122 hp (91 kW) @ 4,250 rpm (versions with automatic transmission)
Torque: 195 lbf·ft (264 N·m) @ 1,800 rpm (versions with manual transmission)
210 lbf·ft (280 N·m) @ 1,800 rpm (versions with automatic transmission)

td5

Power: 122 hp (91 kW) @ 4,850 rpm (versions with manual transmission)
136 hp (101 kW) @ 5,000 rpm (versions with automatic transmission)
Torque: 221 lbf·ft (300 N·m) @ 1,950 rpm

If you take a top of the line tdi and put it up agasint the minimum spec td5, its only about 10% difference.

**Pedro_The_Swift** · 17th November 2012, 09:28 AM

and they had to add a **** load of stuff to get that extra 10%
(besides the extra cylinder--

)

or if you like--

regardless of the ****load of stuff they had to add they still made an extra 10%

and is that 10% enough to pull the extra 8"?

**Blknight.aus** · 17th November 2012, 11:15 AM

nowhere near as much crap as what they had to put on to get another 10% when they went to the puma......

**DeanoH** · 17th November 2012, 04:37 PM

I keep reading about the poor power characteristics of the 300 Tdi. Either I'm easily pleased, have an exceptionally powerfull example or there's nothing wrong with the 300 Tdi as is.

Admittedly my 300 Tdi powered 130 single cab ute is just one example and possibly a fair bit lighter than other LR's using this engine. As far as I know my engine hasn't been 'tweaked' to increase performance but it clips along quite nicely unloaded (I haven't tried it loaded so can't compare). SWMBO's TD5 powered D2a is an auto and whilst more powerful I reckon the manual 300 Tdi powered Defender is a lot nicer to drive through the gears than the D2a with its 'sludge box', but that's me.

My 'test hill' for those that know it is Tynong Hill on the Princess Highway eastbound near Gumbyah Park about 60 Km east of Melbourne. In the Defender with a run up of a kilometre or so I can hit the hill at 100 kph in 5th and still be doing 90+ going over the top. In 4th I can hit it at 100 kph and accelerate over the top. This is real kph not speedo kph. For those that know the hill this is not too shabby.

But the search for more hp/torque still exists for the OKA (4.5 tonne, 4 litre 110 HP Perkins with possibly the worst vehicle turbo ever invented). The Perkins uses the same Bosch VE injector pump as the 300 Tdi.

On a recent run to Mildura the OKA's injector pump decided to dump more fuel on the road than it fed to the engine. This was the result of a loose screw resulting in a 'blown' O ring on the high pressure (~100psi) side of the injector pump. Fortunately there is a very good Bosch specialist within 2 km of the BP in Mildura.

At my request the injector pump was tweaked when rebuilt, basically the pump was built to standard spec and the 'fuel screw' was advanced approx. 1/8th turn which results in about 10 % extra fuelling.

This makes a huge difference in the driveability of the OKA. Where before it was very hard work holding 100 kph on the flat but OK holding 95 or 105 kph (in 5th) it now holds 100 kph very easily and wants to keep going at 105 kph. Also where previously the cruising temp in 5th at 95 and 105 kph was 90 degrees C and at 100 was 95 degrees C it is now an even 90 degrees C across the range. It hangs onto gears longer and is a better drive, there is no smoking under load or acceleration.

The point I'm getting at here is that a simple 'tweak' of the injector pump made the OKA a much better vehicle to drive. The 300 Tdi is the same 'old style' diesel as the Perkins, perhaps the same 'tweak' will work on the Defender. A lot more driveable for no cost (assuming the injector pump is OK to start with).

Deano

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