Thread: Stockton Beach Access Protest 2nd Feb

Originally Posted by bobslandies

Maybe you could give a report of how you saw the day and thanks for the suggestion that we need more publicity. By the way the Association has now run three 4WD and Adventure Shows and they are also getting the message out about the Association and the clubs.

Bob

Thanks Bob, and I am glad you didnt take it as a intent to flame, I seriously havent heard as probably a lot of others about the Association.

I will post back what info that I can get out of it at Stockton and Cessnock.

Many of my friends are attending with various other clubs and I will get their take as well.

Dazza

Originally Posted by garrycol

Working behind the scenes with NPs is the way to achieve results - using politics and not protests - certainly not at this stage.

Garry

Hi Garry,

I do not want to sound "extreme" and please please I hope that you do not take this as some kind of personal attack.

Having said that, I think that "working behing the scenes with NPs" gives then some extra legitimacy that the public, the taxpayers, is not giving them. It is a concept in some way to similar to the concept of not negotiating with kidnappers.

From my point of view, NPs, councils, politicians and other groups have their own survival as their main goal, so extending their powers and resources is part of the process. The service they provide to the citizens, if any, is a secondary issue for them. As stated before, this is my personal view, forged after living in different regions of Europe. I have seen this happening, it is embedded in the human race's DNA.

cheers,

Carlos

Originally Posted by sezook

National Park closures are part of UN's Agenda 21 global plan to close off key public areas to the public. Be prepared for more closures. Show of force via protest is only way to slow this down.

On my 6 month lap around Oz, I've spoken extensively to people caught up in the political games. For example, care taker at Hamelin Pool (Shark Bay, WA) now managed by UN as WA Parks have supposedly failed. Why? Because WA NP misdirected public funds from the Shark Bay World Heritage area to the Pinnacles where they built a flashy tourist center to make money. In many WA parks NP then got private operators to manage the parks while they collect share of the profit. (eg. Valley of the Giants, Denmark, and many light houses, caves etc in south west WA).

I lived near Stockton for 5 years, and would go there 2-3 times a week so I know the area really well. The mild (normal yearly) erosion is an excuse to keep campers off the beach and especially dunes. (You can still drive on a few dunes south of Signa Ship Wreck). Late last year I spoke to 2 NP rangers on Stockton beach (minions carrying out orders)... they couldn't give me a valid reason why public couldn't drive on dunes a few miles from Anna Bay end (excluding the ex-military section) while the private tour operators can not only go on tour-operator area but also other parts of Stockton. BTW, speaking to a few locals in One Mile I was told a Chinese developer is funding the new resort being built on the sand near the Anna Bay exit/entry

A lot of politics behind Stockton and many NSW NP closures. We need to stand up and show we know what they are up to else Stockton will end up in the hands of private operators who will charge $$$ like in WA. Follow the money trail and you'll find the truth behind all the NP closures.

Your post should be pinned up in the general section of the forum.

very clear, very revealing.

Originally Posted by FFR

Hi Garry,

I do not want to sound "extreme" and please please I hope that you do not take this as some kind of personal attack.

Having said that, I think that "working behing the scenes with NPs" gives then some extra legitimacy that the public, the taxpayers, is not giving them. It is a concept in some way to similar to the concept of not negotiating with kidnappers.

It is more like negotiating with "usurpers". As I said in an earlier post some of us have been negotiating with generations of these people for forty years now. They get a job, want to make their mark, recycle some old discredited paperwork and present it as a "new, original concept" and plug it for all it's worth. It is the way of the public service, gets them up the ladder.
The process starts again once that is debunked, they get a rise or are booted by some savvy politician - you have to play them at their own game. Send them endless paper until it can only be brought to the attention of the mandarins in their department. The only real way to deal with them is always go through the Minister. He is the one who can lose his job, rarely it is the public servants. When the Minister wants to pass you off to the bureaucats (sic) you NEVER let that happen - you keep dealing with the Minister only - paper heading downwards is assisted by gravity!

From my point of view, NPs, councils, politicians and other groups have their own survival as their main goal, so extending their powers and resources is part of the process. The service they provide to the citizens, if any, is a secondary issue for them. As stated before, this is my personal view, forged after living in different regions of Europe. I have seen this happening, it is embedded in the human race's DNA.

It sure is - but more so in academia and the public service - that's an oxymoron too!

cheers,

Carlos

Thanks for your observations Carlos, we will both be dismissed a jaundiced in our views of the sacrifices these people make.

Bob

Originally Posted by bobslandies

OK, we have had no response for over 24 hours from John Rooth, so below is now our response.

....

We have been trying to broker a meeting between the organisers of the protest, NPWS and ourselves. We have had no response from the event organisers although NPWS are keen to participate. In addition we must be mindful of the views of the traditional landowners - the Worimi people - on whose behalf NPWS manage the area as well as private land owners/lessees.

Interesting, Roothy posted this on his Facebook page about 4 hours ago:



Roothy: I think someone's pulling your legs guys - NPWS has NOT been in touch with me at all, they have been contacted over six times in the last seven months and still no contact.

So NPWS have ignored Roothy for over 7 months but change their mind 2 days before the protest and somehow 4WDAction gets the blame for a lack of communication because they don't respond within 24 hours?

Could it be NPWS weren't interested in participating at all until suddenly they've seen how big it is getting and how much support there is for it, and now they want to talk? If so then it looks like Roothy has already achieved something...

Originally Posted by O-D

Interesting, Roothy posted this on his Facebook page about 4 hours ago:



Roothy: I think someone's pulling your legs guys - NPWS has NOT been in touch with me at all, they have been contacted over six times in the last seven months and still no contact.

So NPWS have ignored Roothy for over 7 months but change their mind 2 days before the protest and somehow 4WDAction gets the blame for a lack of communication because they don't respond within 24 hours?

Could it be NPWS weren't interested in participating at all until suddenly they've seen how big it is getting and how much support there is for it, and now they want to talk? If so then it looks like Roothy has already achieved something...

The NPWS are always talking with the 4WD Association and where possible letting everyone know the situation at Stockton:

http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/re...achDriving.pdf

Stockton beach disappearing* | Newcastle Herald

Worimi Conservation Lands - Stockton Bight, Stockton Beach, Stockton Sand Dunes, 4WD on Stockton Beach - About Us

Planning Your Visit - camping restrictions:
Worimi Conservation Lands - Stockton Bight, Stockton Beach, Stockton Sand Dunes, 4WD on Stockton Beach - About Us

Planning Your Visit - Driving:
Worimi Conservation Lands - Stockton Bight, Stockton Beach, Stockton Sand Dunes, 4WD on Stockton Beach - About Us


And maybe the NPWS look at 4WD Action and their films and make their mind up who they would rather deal with. You maybe should not always believe what is on Facebook - people's heads are in a spin, 4WDA have changed the meeting point three times now.

There is a Draft Plan of Management about to be released - maybe the credit for it can be claimed too.

Bob

[QUOTE=bobslandies;1848230]
We do not believe additional access at this time is in the best interests of the sustainable long term use of Stockton beach for all user groups. The beach and associated dune area suffered severe damage and will need time to restore itself, if it is not given this time it will be lost to all for ever. This is not the first occasion that such damage or restrictions have happened, it will not be the last and the best way to get the beach open to all is to let it recover - a natural process which must run its course.
[/QUOTE]
What a load of crap... "the natural process" i.e movement of the sand/change to the beach will occur regardless of vehicle traffic and campers.. they are after all "the largest continuous mobile sand dunes in the Southern Hemisphere" As for restrictions like these in the past i dont recall anything except for in recent times since NPWS!

These changes are constantly occuring, the only issues it causes are more stuck idiots who dont know how to drive on the beach, if this is the issue maybe they should start restricting who they let out on the beach and not where we can go.

Bob the problem is the 4wd association in reality represents less than 1% of 4x4 owners. This action by roothy and his supporters may not only motivate the pollies but make the association a bit more opposed to track closures and more questioning of the spiel NPWS feeds us as reasons for closure which are often revealed as straight out lies.