Thread: license to handle R22a refrigerant gas ?

for the amount of effort your going to need to get ticketed for refrigerants for a one off job just pay a fridgey to deal with a vac down and regass

For cost and environmental reasons i would put it back on 407C.

It won't be long before R22 will be gone,and it is WAY more expensive than 407C.

As Dave said,get a local fridgie to sort it.Unless you have the full ticket,which entails a four year apprenticeship,you are not allowed to do repairs on A/C &refrig. equipment.

Originally Posted by scarry

For cost and environmental reasons i would put it back on 407C.

It won't be long before R22 will be gone,and it is WAY more expensive than 407C.

As Dave said,get a local fridgie to sort it.Unless you have the full ticket,which entails a four year apprenticeship,you are not allowed to do repairs on A/C &refrig. equipment.

Hi,

No, it is not R22, it is R22a, which is a hydrocarbon (imagine a mix of propane and butane). In places like UK and USA can be handled by private users, like the LPG bottle you have for camping. Refill R22a bottles can be bought online.

It has no effect on the ozone (like the LPG camping bottle) and the energy needed to manufacture it is minimum, so it is environmentally way better than the conventional gasses.

I am a Fridgie - here's what you need to do to achieve your proposed outcome: You need a full refrigerant handling licence - don't let anyone tell you a split basher's licence or vehicle licence is enough, it isn't - plus a purchasing licence to do what you want. So, 4 years apprenticeship to become a Fridgie (you can't get a full licence unless you are a qualified Fridgie) set up a company (you need the company to get the purchasing licence) pay for the licences & you're good to go.
Or, take it to a local Fridgie, pay them a couple of hundred & get it sorted.
Bear in mind that R407c runs with POE oil & R22 is normally run with Mineral oil. Which does R22a use? You may need to change the oil as well as the refrigerant, although I'm guessing it'll run with POE.
One major negative of R22a is that it's potentially explosive. In my opinion, this is NOT a good idea for a camping fridge or A/C for obvious reasons. Aditionally, I was taught that when using explosive/flammable refrigerants, ALL electrical gear HAS TO BE explosive environment safe. I'm not sure if that applies in Australia, but I think you may have difficulty finding a Fridgie that is au fait with R22a & happy to use it.
I'd stick with the R407c for your application.
That's the long winded explanation of Dave's post. Sorry, but there it is.

Edit: are you sure anyone can buy it in the UK? That's where I did my training & at the time you could not buy flammable refrigerants without having the ticket to prove you'd done the course.

In Australia you need the purchasing licence to buy any refrigerant, and the handling licence to use it.
I'd still stick with R407c. MUCH safer for you, and easy to get a local Fridgie to sort it.

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

for the amount of effort your going to need to get ticketed for refrigerants for a one off job just pay a fridgey to deal with a vac down and regass

Hi Dave,

hey, look at us, we have land rovers. It is not about common sense and practicality... it is all about learning how things work, you know what I mean.

Because R22a is as dangerous as the petrol or the LPG bottle, I suppose that the requirements to handle it in Australia will be easy to fulfill, if any (as mentioned before, no requirements in western countries)

Originally Posted by Ratel10mm

Bear in mind that R407c runs with POE oil & R22 is normally run with Mineral oil. Which does R22a use? You may need to change the oil as well as the refrigerant, although I'm guessing it'll run with POE.

Hi,

Many thanks for your explanation. Quick question: how do you extract the old oil from the system ? I understand that with a vacuum pump you can remove the old gas, and any moisture will evaporate because the water boils at low pressure but... what about the oil ?

I'll check the links I saw about UK, you might be right.

I can understand that a full license is needed if there is some gas to be reclaimed because of the international obligations after the Montreal Protocol.

Regarding the use of hydrocarbons, in Australia some new home fridges and freezers are running on R600a, no explosions so far... although I'm also concerned about the use of a "R407c compressor" with a hydrocarbon without checking compatibility first.

Because an aircon roof is well ventilated, I don't think that any leak will ignite because of the condenser/evaporator fans,,, and, after all, they add pine scent to the blend, so you can smell the leak

sorry for the long post.

You probably won't be able to get the old oil out as the compressor is almost certainly hermetic.

Assuming these types of refrigerant are controlled in the same way as 'normal' refrigerants are, you need the licences to do anything to the system, not just to reclaim the gas.
Ignoring the flammabity issue - if R22a is close enough to R407c the compressor will handle it. You would have either greater or lesser efficiency as the gases are not the same.
There may be other problems caused by the change in refrigerant - how miscable is R22a for example.
If your A/C has an expansion valve like a TEV or EEV, you will need to ensure that it can cope with the new refrigerant.
If you read the MSDS, this refrigerant is heavier than air. If it leaks, it will be into your caravan & likely onto your gas stove, gas powered fridge, or electrics.
BOOM!!
Are those R600 fridges using normal or sealed explosion proof electrics?
Are the Oz regulations for the use of flammable refrigerants as per Europe - do all the electrical & electronic components have to be explosive environment proof? If so, you can forget switching to R22a, the cost would be prohibitive.
What are the regulations regarding LPG installations in vehicles? They'd probably be relevant here.

Originally Posted by Ratel10mm

Are the Oz regulations for the use of flammable refrigerants as per Europe - do all the electrical & electronic components have to be explosive environment proof? If so, you can forget switching to R22a, the cost would be prohibitive.
What are the regulations regarding LPG installations in vehicles? They'd probably be relevant here.

AFAIK, from what I have been reading on whirlpool forums, a car running an aircon with R22a or other hydrocarbon must have a big sticker under the bonnet, so any mechanic will treat the vehicle as if it were an LPG.

My original question was about getting some kind of restricted license to handle hydrocarbon refrigerants, and apparently there are two National Accredited Units (UEENEEJ174A and UEENEEJ175A) related with the use of hydrocarbons, and a single, part time TAFE course to do split systems installs of up to 18 kW, after that (and some other requirement, maybe) you can apply for a restricted refrigerant license. But I'm just searching for info, all this stuff might be outdated or wrong.

Yes, there are one thousand things that can go wrong everyday with petrol and other volatile hydrocarbons... but at the end of the day it is only an aircon running propane. If if were risky then it would be banned. I think that having 250 grams of propane in the roof is nothing compared with 100 liters of petrol in the rear tank. But this is only a personal opinion.

Many thanks for your responses.