climate change the best solution I have heard, seriously.

Alan Savory's books and ideas have been around for a very long time, as have similar grazing techniques.

We used to use rotational grazing on the inlaws cattle property, eating the hell out of paddocks then letting them rest for a minimum of six weeks, and if possible up to three months before grazing back out while rotating three different herds.

It also made the cattle handling much easier and safer when drafting as they were used to me.
The longest they stayed in one paddock was two weeks, small paddocks could be a matter of days.
It all depended on feed levels which is obviously seasonal.
Mostly they would be bellowing to move when it was 'time', all I needed to do was open a gate, yell "c'mon" and they'd all follow to wherever I'd lead.

The biggest hassle grazing this way is water as paddocks are so much smaller than what people are used to.
IMO clean water is a must, it ensures herd health which means tanks and water troughs, which means more cost and more maintenance.
I hate water holes/dams, they're death traps and disease breeders/spreaders.

Somehow we kept the bulk of our breeding herd during the '02-'05 drought, much of which I put down to the style of grazing we used, even though it felt like we were moving them from one paddock of nothing to another paddock of nothing, and yes we supplemented too, even though we all agreed we'd never buy in food, sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

Glad I'm not doing it these days, it's much easier being back on the tools.

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Originally Posted by rick130

Alan Savory's books and ideas have been around for a very long time, as have similar grazing techniques.

We used to use rotational grazing on the inlaws cattle property, eating the hell out of paddocks then letting them rest for a minimum of six weeks, and if possible up to three months before grazing back out while rotating three different herds.

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In your opinion, do you think that style of management worked in regards to soil erosion , & land degradation, ? Bob

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Originally Posted by bob10

In your opinion, do you think that style of management worked in regards to soil erosion , & land degradation, ? Bob

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Yep, very much so.

A lot of the country we farmed was hard.
It was hilly with poor soil, so managing it was all of the battle.
We also had some lovely river and creek flats, but probably 2/3 wasn't great.
Bear in mind that only 40-50km away is some of the richest broadacre farming country in the world, so it might not be as hard as I think.

Hmm, yes it is. :D

We also aimed for a minimum 30% tree cover, and exceeded that well and truly.

Some graziers would be horrified, but the FIL and us (SWMBO and I) were in total agreement on that.

You need to have the attitude that a grazier is in the business of growing grass.
If you have healthy and abundant pasture, then you can stock it and make some money, but it's also part of a wider eco-system and it all needs to be healthy to be sustainable.

Soil fertility, particularly the biological activity to create good humus goes hand in hand with the mineral balance and pasture management.
Get that right and you'll have decent and more importantly, sustainable system.

Taking it one to several steps further, I would have totally fenced off all the creeks and rivers to protect banks, etc, but that would have been a huge $ cost in terms of watering stock over the large number of paddocks we ran and how do you do it when power is several km away ?
You can use solar pumps, etc but it gets a to a point where you still have to be commercial and survive and grazing is just so borderline in terms of return.

The FIL was ok, he didn't need farm income to survive but we didn't earn any money for too many years and on 1700 acres we'd only make a wage in a good season.

We had some brilliant neighbours, some are very smart cattlemen and have been doing it very well for a very long time.
You needed to be very smart, very market savvy, look for niches and be prepared to take huge (calculated) gambles, particularly during droughts. ie. buying stock when worthless and agisting a long way away from home, etc.

I needed to double the country we grazed, then you need to employ at least one farm hand and on it goes.

The FIL and I fought mightily over herd management, if he suggested something I'd pretty much do the opposite :angel:, but I totally agreed with a lot of his landcare arguments.
We also fought over weed and pasture management in terms of what was a worry, what you controlled and what you tried to eliminate, but you won't agree on everything.

Another 'system' to investigate and can be incorporated is Peter Andrews 'Natural Sequence Farming'
IMO that has a lot going for it in this country where we have frequent drought infrequently broken by wet spells.

I agree with all you say there Rick, Although I do not practise 'cell'grazing ' the resting of paddocks is an integreal part of land managment along with correct stock selection, tree cover for protection from heat and frost, and stocking rates relevent to seasons. I am third gen on the property and although we are not rich we are still here:D Came through the worst dry in memory with most stock so that says something. Grandfather bought it in 1936!
The Savoury books are good and Andrews has a lot of interesting ideas to play with:) I can also recommend reading Bill Gammage's : "The Biggest estate on Earth". While it is not a farming practise's book as such, it is an interesting writings of the fire management of Australia pre settelement . It tends to blow the greenies ideas of "virgin forest" away! :D
Cheers Scott

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Originally Posted by schuy1

I agree with all you say there Rick, Although I do not practise 'cell'grazing ' the resting of paddocks is an integreal part of land managment along with correct stock selection, tree cover for protection from heat and frost, and stocking rates relevent to seasons. I am third gen on the property and although we are not rich we are still here:D Came through the worst dry in memory with most stock so that says something. Grandfather bought it in 1936!
The Savoury books are good and Andrews has a lot of interesting ideas to play with:) I can also recommend reading Bill Gammage's : "The Biggest estate on Earth". While it is not a farming practise's book as such, it is an interesting writings of the fire management of Australia pre settelement . It tends to blow the greenies ideas of "virgin forest" away! :D
Cheers Scott

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We had the wrong breed, big time.

SWMBO and I started a cross breed programme and when the BIL bought the place he threw everything away that I'd started as I didn't know anything and went back to what his Dad was doing.

I believe he's since changed his breeding programme :angel:

Read about Grimmage's book in the book reviews of the Herald a few weeks back and mentioned it to a mate yesterday.
Looks interesting, shame I have books coming out of my whazoo ATM (I'm working towards being a professional hippy ATM. Gone from one extreme to the other)
But I'll probably buy it :D

You've done well, you're still there. :BigThumb:

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Originally Posted by rick130

We also aimed for a minimum 30% tree cover, and exceeded that well and truly.

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What sort of trees?

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Originally Posted by Dougal

What sort of trees?

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Native Eucs, mainly Box (Yellow and White) and Stringy Bark, although there are a lot of Native Apples (Eucs) along the creek lines. (along with She Oaks/Casuarina's)
Very few River Red Gums left :( All gone for construction and fencing a long, long time ago.

It's all secondary/tertiary growth, the first couple of generations of white fella's cleared everything.

I'd have to fire up my Euclid CD to give you the scientific/Latin names and I can't find it ATM.

sounds lke our family farm 500 acrea.old dairy now 4x 4x400ft free range poultry.

Native Eucs, mainly Box (Yellow and White) and Stringy Bark, although there are a lot of Native Apples (Eucs) along the creek lines. (along with She Oaks/Casuarina's) river swamps.
green drought kick in at 5FT anual rain.cattle move away from the river flats in winter up into wattle country to eat the tree bark.


dad runs no more than 500 head but we had 2000 here in drought from oxley area.neighbours have a fleet of trucks and the buy in cheep cattle.massive heards of cattle that get moved around out of work hours up into the gloucester hills.

one nieghbour installed an organic hydroponic grass maker to feed stud cattleI told it goes ----but they put on more wieght runninng in the scrub.

muns family farm but dad was timber industry untill i was born.I live in the mill office.we lived high on the hog as kids with fishing and other farm animals..then they stop you having mixed farms on company scale--biosecurity maybe.mudcrabs chasing you out of the swiming pool-mullet in the trees-pigs visiting the farm house and chook poo on the steps.

across the river was hugh corperate property with iron bark and spotted gum.tea tree.teams of workers for years cutting hardwood for mines and building boards -replaced with a hand full of cow watchers.then they buldozed the joint with chains between dozers .divided into 160 acrea sites and sold to townies.they now worth more dollars each than the 20 000acre blocks.