The end of the Australian Ford

Or perhaps the problem is we have never had a successful Australian car industry. We have had a foreign car industry operating in Australia.

Perhaps a large part of the reason for this is that Australian culture and policies have never favoured anyone prepared to invest a lot of money on something that is high risk, which has always been the case with manufacturing in this country, even given good ideas and plans. Hence anyone with the sort of money needed will usually put it into something safe, such as houses.

Attempts to start a real Australian car industry have largely foundered on a lack of capital, and the tendency of governments to favour large foreign corporations with existing overseas manufacturing records.

John

Yes, you need a government which is simply determined to do whatever it takes to ensure the industry is successful long-term. For example, Obama nationalised GM and Chrysler to save them from collapse, and later sold out when they were healthy. Could you imagine any Australian government nationalising our car industry to save it?

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Originally Posted by DiscoClax

OK, I'm comparing PASSENGER cars here. Not purpose built 4WDs against road cars. In the Outback you see 4WDs and.... Commodores and Falcons. Period. I've done sign-off trips out to Camerons Corner (~15 years ago) in bog-stock Falcons. It's part of the standard sign-off for all local product (just like we actually test our bullbars in real crash tests into full size/weight Kangaroo dummies). Yeah I've done that testing and it's really not fun. In short, we test and design cars to survive Australia, not just driving down a motorway in Germany.

Lack of innovation? Given the constraints driven by very low volume, negligible support, etc I think you'll find that's not entirely accurate.

The current Commodore is festooned with the latest tech. Something we couldn't do on Falcon as there was no justification for the massive cost on a short-term platform.

Ford locally ran the same ZF 6-speed as LR through this period. LR have only just stepped up to the newer 8HP, not something feasible if you are killing the platform imminently, per Falcon. LR introduced the ZF 6HP in the same year as Falcon so there's no argument there.

Research the LPi system. That's not done anywhere else in the world and we pioneered it and brought it to production. And it makes an LPG engine produce more power and torque that the petrol equivalent with great fuel economy.

Iron engines? The Commodore engines have been all-alloy for well over a decade. Ford's V8 is all-alloy and the 'venerable' six is only iron-blocked. Most high-power density engines today have gone back to being iron blocked. Lion V6/V8? Iron. Iron is stronger and has better NVH. Alloy is good for fast warm-up for emissions.

I suspect strongly that you have not driven a Falcon, Territory, Commodore (or even Camry/Aurion) built in the last 5-10 years over any distance objectively. If you had I doubt you would be referring to these vehicles in light of 1980-1990 thinking. It would also make you typical of much of the buying public that perceive the local stuff as inferior, because we once were... And there's a big part of the problem.

Anyway, I'm clearly flogging a dead horse here and we'll just have to agree to disagree. But please do not denigrate the extraordinary work that local engineers have done.

Oh, and the Ranger and Everest are entirely engineered here. It's 'our' platform and we engineer it to go to every corner of the world and it's been a massive success everywhere.

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I left Fords 20 years age as a test driver and an assigned mechanic. I can say what is being said here is totally true. As stated we use to test our vehicles in proper outback conditions. I use to do two or three trips a year with engineers to all parts of the country. Dinner plain to Darwin in test vehicles. These vehicles were spot on. However the Marketing was not so good in my view. One of the worst tests we use to do was a 60Kmh straight on drive into a standard Kerb under brake lock up. The Falcon passed not a problem; we had hired a commodoreand did the same test. It bent at the A pillar it took a while for the in house team to fix it. We also did side by testing of vehicles, same conditions same test procedure the Falcon always was more durable. The test vehicles are set to maximum weight, as in Lead weights for 4 passenger's luggage etc. and where driven to the max. But yes markets have changed but you cannot say that Ford Australia was and will be a world leader in Design and engineering.
I have a video made in 1988 by myself and a few others from the Proving ground. Have no idea how to post it up, we made it as Ford Product Engineering had an open day for staff but we were too busy to host an open day, it was made during the testing of the EA falcon before public release.
I have kept in touch with people who still work there so I am familiar at this point in time.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Yes, you need a government which is simply determined to do whatever it takes to ensure the industry is successful long-term. For example, Obama nationalised GM and Chrysler to save them from collapse, and later sold out when they were healthy. Could you imagine any Australian government nationalising our car industry to save it?

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No, mainly because it is not our car industry, as I commented. While a government could possibly weather nationalising an Australian owned industry, the consequences of nationalising an American owned industry would be disastrous. (Although worth noting that Chifley's plan to nationalise the Australian owned banking industry handed government on a platter to Menzies for almost a generation.)

John

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Yes, you need a government which is simply determined to do whatever it takes to ensure the industry is successful long-term. For example, Obama nationalised GM and Chrysler to save them from collapse, and later sold out when they were healthy. Could you imagine any Australian government nationalising our car industry to save it?

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We couldn't do it. Costs would skyrocket..

One of the benefits of international brands operating here was many parts were shared, be it driveline or trim.

If an Aussie manufacturer had to make their own engine, all the switches, trim etc I would think it would prove very expensive.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Yes, you need a government which is simply determined to do whatever it takes to ensure the industry is successful long-term. For example, Obama nationalised GM and Chrysler to save them from collapse, and later sold out when they were healthy. Could you imagine any Australian government nationalising our car industry to save it?

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Disco, you need to get off the "Govt" bit mate. (IMHO!)
There were MANY MANY outside (Australia) influences in what has happened, and some of them have been mentioned in this thread.
Pickles.

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Originally Posted by boa

We also did side by testing of vehicles, same conditions same test procedure the Falcon always was more durable.

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That is an interesting observation. My experience as a mechanic leads me to believe the opposite.

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Originally Posted by BigJon

That is an interesting observation. My experience as a mechanic leads me to believe the opposite.

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I remember when Falcons were preferred to Commodores as taxis because they were regarded as being more durable.

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

Disco, you need to get off the "Govt" bit mate. (IMHO!)
There were MANY MANY outside (Australia) influences in what has happened, and some of them have been mentioned in this thread.
Pickles.

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That's true, but it doesn't change the point that what happens in a country is largely determined by its government. For example, Thailand's government has built a huge auto industry with foreign-owned companies because it's policies attracted them to the country, which has become 'the Detroit of Asia'. That didn't happen by accident - it was planned. Australia had a similar opportunity and blew it.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

That's true, but it doesn't change the point that what happens in a country is largely determined by its government. For example, Thailand's government has built a huge auto industry with foreign-owned companies because it's policies attracted them to the country, which has become 'the Detroit of Asia'. That didn't happen by accident - it was planned. Australia had a similar opportunity and blew it.

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Nope.
A previous poster has said, & very truly, & an aspect I've never thought of, & I quote, "We've NEVER had our own car industry"'.......decisions have never really been made here, and for the last several years they most definitely have not.
But Disco, there's a million opinions aren't there mate!!
I just bought the latest edition of Wheels Magazine,....a large part of the magazine is devoted to Ford's closure, the roots of which would appear to have been decided many years ago,....you could check it out?
Pickles.