Thread: Paper Filters are rubbish.

Originally Posted by modman

(Btw bills posting on pirate again these days- portal rover)

OT, he's on LR4x4 still too, I didn't realise he'd been given the flick here !!??

Originally Posted by modman

Ben,
Cancel those uni degrees, get a refund on all that hecs you paid
Those testing labs will have to be closed through threat of litigation

And then get out of your class room and put some things into practice. Knowledge needs to be balanced with experience. Neither are any good alone.

What works in a lab doesn't always work in the real world.

Happy Days.

Originally Posted by joel0407

I don't know why these other guys are so set on believing some test with polystyrene

Happy Days.

Because it backs up real world results with used oil analysis over many hundreds of thousands of Km by too many to count, including some of the best and brightest in the filtration business.

I've used K&N and UniFilters, they worked really well on the race engines I used them on, but I know of too many engines dusted from using a K&N in extreme conditions.

There's a reason why all the Ag and mining machinery don't spec K&N's and one thing they are big on is filtration.
As Ben has pointed out, Donaldson, Cummins/Fleetguard/Nelson and Mann-Hummels research budgets exceed K&N's total sales.

We have a bona fide filtration research engineer posting results and sharing real world results, let alone oil test results by myself and others and a number of us have drawn on other oil industry experts that have shared real world testing. ,

If you're happy with your choice that's all that matters, just don't expect to come on here and say an oiled cotton gauze filter filters better than a cellulose fibre one without being challenged.

It's pretty obvious they are all rubbish compared to the oily steel wool Series air sieve. After all, the engines last 50+ years without changing filter elements...

Originally Posted by joel0407

The location where the Disco picked up air was a pretty poor design for an off road vehicle.

I know the K&N filter would have also been packed solid with dirt but what bothers me about the paper filter is once it had it's fill of dirt, it has started letting dirt past. A K&N will fill up too but it will choke the motor rather than let dirt past.

1st point. absolutely.

2nd point. The K&N wouln't have been packed solid, in fact it probably would have appeared less clogged because one particles adhere to the sticky surface because that adhesion is the only method of collection, apart from mechanical collection of larger than aperture particles anything smaller would continue to pass through unimpeded.

I've seen K&N's used in race applications for primary filtration but some teams still use a paper filter behind that. Hell in the Group C days a certain red & white teams old round carbie top filers with the open sides were std elements wrapped in the sponsors branded foam. Un-oiled as to not effect the paper. give it a test with the snorkel and paper, you should see a difference there.

Also be aware that I found (again at supercheap) that some of the D2 filters were generic to all models of flat element D1's & 2's. There are at least 3 different sizes of flat panel elements in that range (2 sizes in D2 alone for V8 & TD5 flat panels) and there was no differentiation between these in part numbers. You also may have ended up with a wrong size.

I took this info to Ryco who admitted they only had a listing for D1 flat panel all and due to feedback had to re-engineer their product to suit plus there was only 1 D2 element. I met up with the sales manager with some 2nd hand sample to set the record straight. And this was less than 2 years ago after I got the wrong size elements in an order.

Originally Posted by Redback

Better having the dirt in the filter than in your engine, oh and if your not cleaning or changing your filter every 5000ks, then you should be, I do regardless of whether I'm travelling on dirts roads or not.

Baz.

Umm, wrong thinking there Baz, a filter works more efficiently the more it loads, the big Ag/mining stuff use a pressure drop alarm to indicate when to change the element.

I haven't swapped the Fleetguard element in the Tdi for something like 40,000km now, might even be more.

Originally Posted by joel0407

...

I don't know why these other guys are so set on believing some test with polystyrene

....

??? Not sure what you are getting at there? PSL (PolyStyrene Latex) particles have been shown to penetrate/rebound in filters much more readily than real "dust" particles. As one former colleague put it they "bounce like golf balls". Again this shows a lack of understanding of filters and aerosol physics on your part.

Pick any type and size of particle you want, the K&N will collect fewer of them.

to be safe, you should be using air bottles to feed your engine.