Security Guard tossers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

DB

You read me wrong, the ninja at the lead of this thread is the type of wannabe I'm talking about. You may also not be aware that I worked in the NSW Prisons Service and have a Police officer in my family. Also having worked in Emergency Departments for several decades i have had a lot of experience of Police.

When you get the NSW Police and security training authorities making the claim, there is actually some substance in the claim. "Cameron Smith from the New South Wales Police says it is a legal loophole that needs to be fixed.

"People who are unwilling or incapable of getting through our training requirements are able to get through those interstate courses," Mr Smith said."

"The SECTA training academy in New South Wales says in Queensland it is laughably easy to get the qualification that lets you become a licensed guard anywhere in Australia.

"You do a two-day training course, in some cases not even two days, you just virtually buy your certificate," SECTA's Duncan McGufficke said." Sham security courses putting lives at risk - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Even acadamic literature has higlighted the problems of mutual recognition of some Qld training providers: "In Queensland, as one example of an anomaly, it is possible to obtain a security consultant licence without undertaking any training (Office of Fair Trading 2012). Indeed, the ease with which a person can obtain a security licence in Queensland (along with allegations that the assignment answers are provided by one less than reputable training agency) was highlighted in a media report recently (Harvey 2012)" www.crimejusticejournal.com article download

---

Diana,

I understand what you are saying here, but in all fairness, it needs to be pointed out that this article is 12 months old.

In that time, there have been a lot of changes, especially in Queensland. Most have taken place this year.

Also, mutual recognition is a lot harder to get than the article would suggest. It was actually easier for me to apply for a new licence in 2 states, rather than try and obtain mutual recognition. As for WA, well you cannot hold a licence there unless you are a resident of that state.

"it is possible to obtain a security consultant licence without undertaking any training"

This above statement needs to be put into context, as the definition of "Security Consultant" is different state by state. For example, in SA, a person with this classification is restricted to selling electronic alarm systems, as an employee, whilst under supervision.

In Victoria, I understand that the same term also encompasses the selling of guard & patrol work.

As with a lot of things, co-operation between the states & territories on matters such as this, is basically non existent. Just imagine having them all in the same room together, and trying to get agreement on a simple definition of the word, "Duress" I think I would rather herd cats.... :eek:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

DB

Quote:

---

You read me wrong,

---

the ninja at the lead of this thread is the type of wannabe I'm talking about. You may also not be aware that I worked in the NSW Prisons Service and have a Police officer in my family. Also having worked in Emergency Departments for several decades i have had a lot of experience of Police.

When you get the NSW Police and security training authorities making the claim, there is actually some substance in the claim. "Cameron Smith from the New South Wales Police says it is a legal loophole that needs to be fixed.

"People who are unwilling or incapable of getting through our training requirements are able to get through those interstate courses," Mr Smith said."

"The SECTA training academy in New South Wales says in Queensland it is laughably easy to get the qualification that lets you become a licensed guard anywhere in Australia.

"You do a two-day training course, in some cases not even two days, you just virtually buy your certificate," SECTA's Duncan McGufficke said." Sham security courses putting lives at risk - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Even acadamic literature has higlighted the problems of mutual recognition of some Qld training providers: "In Queensland, as one example of an anomaly, it is possible to obtain a security consultant licence without undertaking any training (Office of Fair Trading 2012). Indeed, the ease with which a person can obtain a security licence in Queensland (along with allegations that the assignment answers are provided by one less than reputable training agency) was highlighted in a media report recently (Harvey 2012)" www.crimejusticejournal.com article download

---

i dont think I did read it wrong I wasn't suggesting you saying it out gives me the iriates only the fact that, that particular line gives me the irrits because it gets thrown around A LOT and generally to ANYONE that wears a uniform and appointments that isn't a police officer....

I fail to see what that line has to do with anyone getting a licence easily by means of crappy courses...the line talks about them being failed cops...

and when Mr Smith talks about training course..is he talking about the police or the training courses for security in NSW because he doesnt specify. But I would suggest not the police taking the document context in to account

I too work with the police Diana daily! I also have friends that are police officers and funnily enough I have a police officer in the family all be it in the UK but police officers don't usually get called failed cops, so again I'm struggling with the relevance..:p

again my gripe is with that particular line that a wannabe (anyone that is dressed like the police) is a failed cop. I bet my bottom dollar that a large portion of the security industry whether they got a kelloggs licence or not never even tried for the cops.

Just sayin:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dullbird

to ANYONE that wears a uniform and appointments that isn't a police officer....

---

Lou. I don't see it this way, and I did not read the OP's post that way.

It is not about every one that wears a uniform, it is the way some people wear them.

My son is a pilot and he and the ones he hangs with hate having to wear the bars on their shoulders. As soon as they are off duty off come the bars, yet there are plenty that like to wear them all the time to say "look at me, I am a pilot".

He calls them ****** bars, or in the context of the OP, could be called tosser bars.

I understand what your saying but

my comments are not in relation to the original poster calling that guy he saw a tosser..

my comment is in relation to this comment one that I hear in my profession and one I believe to be a massive assumption of anyone that wears a uniform that looks like a cop.

Quote:

---

These sorts of wannabees usually are the ones that have already been rejected as unsuitable for Police or prisons.

---

"these sorts of wannabees" is very subjective...yes Im sure Diana and the OP are talking about people that are exceptions to the rule and totally over the top and stick out a mile...

but it doesnt take away from the fact that the line IS used frequently to many that are not in this extreme bracket

that is why I said I'm not having a go at Diana for saying it more so that I hated that line because of what it so widely stands for now which is a mass assumption, one that, believe it or not some members of the public actually believe to be true. :)

I should clarify though we don't say that to each other in our profession like your son does in his, its said to us from outside our profession usually by the people that don't appreciate seeing us:D

And don't forget there are other uniformed government departments that have security roles.
The Sheriff's Office, at least in NSW, have legislated powers and carry appointments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dullbird

....
I should clarify though we don't say that to each other in our profession like your son does in his, its said to us from outside our profession usually by the people that don't appreciate seeing us:D

---

DB

That is the conundrum of uniformed office. It's often a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't, it is often a very fine line you have to walk to make the best out of each situation. In many cases no one will be happy because it wasn't enough and it was too much at the same time.

However I have no doubt that you wouldn't appear on duty as some Robocop facsimile carrying a whole arsenal on your bat belt, threatening everyone with extensive powers that you do or do not hold.

Most security officers wouldn't either, they go about their business as professionals and no I wouldn't call these people wannabees either.

However I take your counsel and will refrain from the use of the term in future.

Hey Diana

Sorry it wasnt meant to silence you and your thoughts...

just a pet hate that I probably voiced a little too loudly when I should of just ignored it...

After what happened in Kenya, I don't care if they are tossers [ and I'm sure the majority aren't], just as long as they can shoot straight, & have the courage to do so, Bob

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bob10

After what happened in Kenya, I don't care if they are tossers [ and I'm sure the majority aren't], just as long as they can shoot straight, & have the courage to do so, Bob

---

If the reports the Al Shabaab terrorist group had rented a shop in the complex (to store their weapons prior the the attack) are true, then no matter how brave the security officer was, they would most likely still be dead from overwhelming enemy numbers alongside the many civilians.

However against a lone untrained gunman, an armed, well trained, cool headed security officer is the best defence until the Police arrive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

However against a lone untrained gunman, an armed, well trained, cool headed security officer is the best defence until the Police arrive.

---

Except in this country an armed security officer is a rare thing. It's hard enough to find one carrying batons/cuffs etc, let alone a gun :(