Thread: Civil Liberties

Interesting debate but what it have to do with the risk to loose our freedom and that the police act with the existing laws

Some interesting viewpoints.
My impression from the press I guess is that the Bikies have moved to the Gold Coast from Sydney as Sydney has become too hot, because of the recent law changes there.
This would indicate that the tougher association laws are working.

When you all talk about civil liberties IMHO it is a balance. I distinctly recall sitting in Mona Vale hospital casualty on 9/11 seeing the planes go into the World trade Centre and saying to my wife that we are seeing the end of civil liberties as we know it. This has come to pass. Hell at Sydney airport you get Xrayed now especially as wryly commented by AFAIR a blonde, if you are blonde as you have to balance out all the swarthy types in the name of fairness.

You seem to all forget that our civil liberties have been already eroded. you are guilty until proven innocent if you are pinged by a speed camera. At least it seems to me now that the cops are so busy checking number plates that they let you go if over the speed limit by a few Ks.

ASIS and ASIO Will have a dossier on you if you have visited just about anywhere in the Middle east, especially if you are a Moslem. And rightly so as this is a response to a potential threat.

I read today that the MCA is supporting a High Court Challenge on the Queensland laws. If the court follows previous judgments they will probably find the laws unconstitutional especially the bit about different jail terms for the same offence if a bikie or bikie leader.

This is one of the great things about Australia , separation of the executive ( government) and the judiciary and this is one of our major checks and balances.
Finally all this new surveiilance is because the technology is now available.( Ie because they can) I have no idea why we still have number plates. Why not an RFID? It would be neater but then deprive all those people who need to express themselves through number plates like BAA BAA on a black Jeep which I must say I found witty.
Regards Philip A

Originally Posted by The Reg

I've always held to the idea that if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear..

if im not doing anything wrong, why do you need to spy on me?

Originally Posted by PhilipA

ASIS and ASIO Will have a dossier on you if you have visited just about anywhere in the Middle east, especially if you are a Moslem. And rightly so as this is a response to a potential threat.

i believe ASIS would be in breach of the law if they kept dossiers of australian citizens.

Originally Posted by Disco Muppet

So yes, Schools should teach useful things. The only useful subjects I did were PDHPE and maths, not really getting that much use out of Studies of Religion or four units of history.

Don't be so quick to dismiss the value of your study of history.

It may be a large part of the reason why you understand the world you live in. It helps a lot to really understand the way things are if you know something of how things came to be that way.

This site offers a fuller explanation of the point I am trying to make.

What is History & Why Study It?

History is a means to understand the past and present. The different interpretations of the past allows us to see the present differently and therefore imagine—and work towards—different futures. Through the study of history we can investigate and interpret why society developed as it has and determine what influences have affected the past and present and shape the future. It helps one to understand the immense complexity of our world and provides insights to help cope with the problems and possibilities of the present and future. History also provides a sense of identity to understand the collective past that has have made us what we are today. In one sense history is the only thing that is real. The way in which people identify and interact with one another is by and large a consequence of history, which shapes and conditions individuals and societies whether they fully understand it or not.

I think Chucaro, who said,

Interesting debate but what it have to do with the risk to loose our freedom and that the police act with the existing laws

would agree that some of his concerns about civil liberties derive from his knowledge of the history of the erosion of civil liberties in other countries.

Originally Posted by Eevo

if im not doing anything wrong, why do you need to spy on me?

What is spying? Events are flagged and they tie to people. Recently I bought petrol at a garage in South Australia while at the same time my card was used to buy a latte in a restaurant in Brazil. I'm happy for that type of spying, but it means that my transactions are being scrutinized. The lines get very blurred indeed.

Originally Posted by vnx205

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I think Chucaro, who said, would agree that some of his concerns about civil liberties derive from his knowledge of the history of the erosion of civil liberties in other countries.

You are spot on! but my experience is related to rebellion economy measures by the government and abuse of companies regarding working conditions.
Back in the very early 60's, we in Uruguay were very lay back with the natural approach that what ever was happens in another countries regarding the limited civil liberties "will never happens to us"
How wrong we was
That was because the country was at the end of a golden era regarding wealth and standard of living.
Then the economy start deteriorating and the right governments started squeezing the working class and the middle class started loosing status.
Bingo! people complained and the government took measures to stop people complaining.
The case here in Australia it is for different reasons but once the governments implements laws to limit our civil liberties then you can be sure that they will abuse their power by use them for any situation that they think it is justified.

Originally Posted by vnx205

Don't be so quick to dismiss the value of your study of history.

It may be a large part of the reason why you understand the world you live in. It helps a lot to really understand the way things are if you know something of how things came to be that way.

I'm not saying I regret studying it, and I've certainly found it useful at trivia down the pub!
I just think what I'm interested in now and potentially as a career, Some more practical subjects might have been metalwork or economics.