Aus Day 2014 - WA off to a bad start... Shark cull

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Originally Posted by beagleONE

haha, that is because i cant say with 100% certainty there will never be another attack in qld if they were to adopt a new shark control method. that would be naive at best.

there is also the other known result of
"The shark attack rate diminished about 97% while fishing operations were being conducted, whereas no-fishing periods and the period prior to the implementation of the SMPR had similar shark attack rates"

Proven improved results, from field studies, conducted by experts.


I can see how my original post may have come across as politically biased, but honestly that has probably stemmed from the immense frustration that I feel with the situation. Regardless of Liberal, Labor or Greens being in power (what is the difference these days anyway :D), I would be opposed to this policy.

And I believe the term 'masses' is a fair call, when compared to those who who actively support the culling...
You dont see 100+ scientist, and 100,000+ electronic signatures (30,000+ from greenpeace website, 70,000+ from change.org petition) actively supporting the cull.

Really, who cares where the opposition is coming from.
Sharks are travelers, the white pointers that hang out in WA waters visit SA waters too. What is done in WA can affect the eco-systems other states.. And other countries!





Fair enough BMK, you are entitled to make the call of me being hypocritical.
Ill try and expand on my previous explanation for focusing soley on WA at the moment.

I believe to completely eradicate this practice, there must be a series of small victories. I dont believe that we can simply get rid of all bait and kill shark programs, in Australia, in one hit.
There is a lot of media attention for WA at the moment, making it easier to draw peoples attention to this practice. If people are on side for revoking WA's policy, it will be easier to get them on side for changing the practices in QLD.

It would be too overwhelming to highlight the terrible things that humans do to sharks world wide. It would be an information overload, which in turn would turn people away from actively supporting change.


I have read that you are opposed to the culling of sharks in previous posts.
But to suggest that the information that I have provided in not credible, simply because I did not mention QLD in my initial post is questionable.

I would rather be called hypocritical for focusing on WA, and actively promote information on why it is a terrible practice/alternate options;
than say I dont agree with it, and do nothing about it ;)
To me, that would be the height of hypocrisy.

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Mate I appreciate you are on a crusade, so muc so that if I was cyncial I might wonder if you had a vested interest:D, but lets not guild the lilly too much:D.

The percentage of people you are claiming as massive is very small and whilst you may not care where they come from, it is up to the people of WA to make the call, not every green group with an agenda. There have been governments from both sides in Qld and NSW since it was introduced and there has been no significant action to stop it that I am aware of. Didn't see this thread during the last QLD election so I would suspect that there are other agendas going on.

Having lived in WA, there is no quicker way to turn the locals against an issue than bring in rent a crowbd and the crowd seems decidedly out of state on this issue. IMHO.

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Originally Posted by beagleONE

And I believe the term 'masses' is a fair call, when compared to those who who actively support the culling...
You dont see 100+ scientist, and 100,000+ electronic signatures (30,000+ from greenpeace website, 70,000+ from change.org petition) actively supporting the cull.

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beagleOne, as much as you want to leave politics out of things like this, I believe that they are inextricably linked, if not to the core issue then at least to the debate surrounding it.

In relation to your figures above I must point out the fact (that you already know, I'm sure) that Australians are an inherently dispassionate lot for the most part. And conservatives and moderates tend to sit back and watch things like this without ever saying too much until very late in the piece. You shouldn't mistake silence for support.

A lack of any petition supporting a decision that has already been made shouldn't be interpreted as anything more than just that. Does the hair pulling and gnashing of teeth on display right now by the left of centre mean that those not aligned with their position should come out and face off? No, we'll just continue to sit back and laugh or despair like we have always done. People scoffed at Pauline and yet she got up; more than once.

Don't get me wrong. I don't necessarily agree that the current plan is the best way to handle this problem (and yes, it is a problem), but something needs to be done. And things like this shouldn't be handled by hurling rocks, spraying graffiti, or issuing death threats.

I'm watching with great interest. Having grown up on the Sunshine Coast I virtually lived in the surf. I don't anymore now that I'm in WA. And nor will my kids unless we move east. I can live with that but it doesn't mean I'm happy about it.

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Originally Posted by nugge t

Mate I appreciate you are on a crusade, so muc so that if I was cyncial I might wonder if you had a vested interest:D, but lets not guild the lilly too much:D.

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Haha, I know what you are saying man :D
I can guarantee that I personally have no vested interest in this, outside of trying to make a small difference in a big world.
And the proposed shark rallies are nation wide. I will be attending the one in Adelaide. If people want to travel to WA for this, it is their prerogative.

Like JC has commented, as a general rule Aussies will sit back and not do too much. I actually felt sick yesterday when I heard the first shark in WA had been caught and killed. This has just reached a point of sheer frustration for me, and I want to do something about it.

A couple of lads from here have signed a petition, and this has prompted discussion amongst forum members. This I see as a good thing.
You and I may have differing opinions, but I have thoroughly enjoyed the too and fro ;)
Like I have said, this has just reached a point of too much for myself personally. I feel a need to do something about it.

I have provided factual information, from experts that has supported my opinion on this matter too.
I hope you all have a chance to read this, and make an informed decision on the matter.




JC I completely agree that hurling rocks, graff, issuing death threats is a sure fire way to discredit the hard work that people have put in to this so far. So strongly oppose such methods. I really hope those idiots do not attend the proposed shark rallys.





If I were to give you an insight into my political view, I can assure you the greens will never get my vote.. Which may come as a surprise to you :D

Having grown up on a farm, I have an interest in 4x4, camping, riding motorbikes, competitive shooting and obviously surfing.
If the greens had their way, a lot of my interests would be negatively effected. Their 'bad policies' far outweigh their 'good policies'.
And before you hammer me about shooting. I enjoy putting tiny holes in pieces of paper over distance. I do not enjoy using firearms to euthanize animals. But do what needs to be done.
(And killing sharks does not need to be done, when catch and release elsewhere is more effective than catch and kill).


....the plot thickens :D hahaha.





edit -
more interesting reading

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/an...116-30vsq.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...nd-kill-policy

https://www.facebook.com/SharkAttackSurvivors

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...014/01/212.jpg



wow, the government may have not covered their own ass on this....
will be watching this with interest!


http://m.perthnow.com.au/news/wester...-1226810663433

Aren't we all fascinating and complex creatures. I too can do what others may interpret as straddling of the fence. Your leanings need no explaining. I'm sure everyone else here can relate.

Whether I agree with them or not I really do feel for people who are passionate about something but have their cause derailed by fanatics (or worse, by professional trouble-makers).

I feel like that about Sea Shepherd in fact. Despite the militant stand-over facade seen around Fremantle I have no doubt that there are many, many good people involved in that cause but the odd few ruin it all (in my eyes and for many others, I'm sure) and I suspect will guarantee that they are never truly legitimised. This is a bit of a tangent, but the death threats and the like that we've seen of late are akin to the piracy that I believe Sea Shepherd carry on with. And there is such a thing as bad publicity.

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Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

Your immediate defense of Colin Barnett made it so.......

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Mate you need to chill out. I made NO political reference at all and was pointing out what has been in place in QLD for 50 years. That you could even remotely interpret my post as such directly reflects your own obsession.

If there was any political reference in this thread before yours, please show us.

Sympathy from shark attack victims is common. Rodney Fox was the same but I am not sure it qualifies as scientific justification one way or the other. Maybe they are just happy to be alive where as those who have died might view it differently if they could be asked:D

I appreciate the rallies are nation wide but the debate is a local WA one and it just seems a bit presumptuous to be rallying in SA when it is a WA issue...sorry.

As I have said before, the silence from the same groups was deafening in the last QLD and NSW elections. Sounds like this has Sea Shepherd written all over it to me. Maybe their coffers are a bit low after their recent piracy and they are trying to drum up membership/donations and this is a handy opportunity??

IMHO not only people for different states but also people from other countries have the right to complain about WA policies affecting the global ecosystem including fauna of the sea in the same way that we complain about japan killing the whales.
The WA government does not own the sea.
If people like to swim in shark populated waters they are in their own like the ones that like to risk their life in the waterways in Qld and the NT.

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Originally Posted by nugge t

I appreciate the rallies are nation wide but the debate is a local WA one and it just seems a bit presumptuous to be rallying in SA when it is a WA issue...sorry.

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nope. sorry man. that logic is so flawed :(

as an example i could use that logic to make the following statement...

'we shouldnt support locally sourced and sustainable forestry. we should just rely on cheaper imported and unsustainably grown timber from chille. it doesnt matter that it is unsustainably grown, cause its not grown in australia. only chille will feel the negative impacts of this'




see what im getting at??
holistic approaches nugge t, need to broaden ones mindset.
edit - like Chucaro has said. this can potentially have an effect on a world scale.
it is common knowledge that white pointers found in SA have been tracked to South Africa.
guess what, they have to swim right on by WA to get there.


do some research on sharks travel patterns, and the demise of an alpha-predator on an eco-system.

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Originally Posted by Chucaro

IMHO not only people for different states but also people from other countries have the right to complain about WA policies affecting the global ecosystem including fauna of the sea in the same way that we complain about japan killing the whales.
The WA government does not own the sea.
If people like to swim in shark populated waters they are in their own like the ones that like to risk their life in the waterways in Qld and the NT.

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That's fine but where have those people been championing the cause in QLD and NSW for the last 50 years.

The point I am making is that this seems to be a very selective argument generated predominantly by people outside WA.

If they had been protesting for the last 5 years, 2 years....jeez even the last 6 months in other places where it is already in place they might have some credibility.

That they have suddenly found voice makes it look very much like the latest "in" protest to be involved in.

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Originally Posted by nugge t

That's fine but where have those people been championing the cause in QLD and NSW for the last 50 years.

The point I am making is that this seems to be a very selective argument generated predominantly by people outside WA.

If they had been protesting for the last 5 years, 2 years....jeez even the last 6 months in other places where it is already in place they might have some credibility.

That they have suddenly found voice makes it look very much like the latest "in" protest to be involved in.

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no offense mate, but thats a very poor reason to be opposed to something.
especially when this 'something' has scientific, field tested evidence, from experts, that suggests that current practices can be improved on...
i.e. the catch and relocation that i have been harping on about.


what your suggesting is that if people have only recently become aware of something wrong; that has been happening for a long time; and they promote awareness around the issue; they have no credibility?

if you were truly engaged in this matter, you would research the facts and make judgements based on fact.
you would not make judgements based on the person presenting the facts to you.
have you actually read the link that supports catch and relocate?


personally i wasnt born fifty years ago to oppose QLD's policy.
regardless, fifty years ago people didnt have the in depth understanding, or technology to measure the impacts of culling species of animals...
if they did, maybe we as the human race may not have caused so many extinctions in the last fifty years.





“if all insects on Earth disappeared, within 50 years all life on
Earth would end. If all human beings disappeared from the Earth,
within 50 years all forms of life would flourish.”

― Biologist Jonas Salk