Thread: Small Diesel For To & From Work

Originally Posted by steane

I would get a petrol to be honest. Far more reliable in the long run (higher ks and out of warranty situation), none of the carbon issues associated with modern diesels (PCV/EGR), cheaper to service and they get great fuel economy from them these days. No way would I complicate a $10k purchase with a diesel.

The modern direct injection petrols have their own carbon and EGR problems.

Originally Posted by steane

I'd also avoid anything VW if you are shopping second-hand and out of warranty. Ask the VACC and tow truck drivers about how reliable they are (literally any other make is more reliable). I wouldn't go near one, mind you there are plenty of people trying to sell them and you can probably get a great deal.

I thought those guys gave landrover their "least reliable title".

Yeah the largest car company in the world only produces rubbish. What would you buy?

Originally Posted by Dougal

The modern direct injection petrols have their own carbon and EGR problems.



I thought those guys gave landrover their "least reliable title".

Yeah the largest car company in the world only produces rubbish. What would you buy?

You having a bad day Dougal?

Did I say that VW only made rubbish?

Does being big mean a company doesn't ever make anything but really really really good cars?

GM was once the biggest, did they go broke building really really really good cars?

Or do you think being Euro and gosh darn it German as well, means everything VW do is perfect? Recent headlines involving the brand should give you half a clue about that myth.

You may know better, no-doubt you do, but I would and have bought petrols over diesels for the reasons I stated. If you think the modern diesel is more reliable and cheaper to run than a petrol then thats fine. I disagree, strongly.

If you like VWs then that's great as well. I love driving VWs and have driven more than most people but I would not own one for the reasons I have stated.

So as this isn't a VW fanboy thread and the question asked was regarding running and service cost, like I said, I'd go petrol and I'd go Japanese. Suzuki Swift comes to mind and you'd almost be guaranteed not to have to visit a dealer aside from routine servicing. Fun with a capital F to drive. There are other options as well, that's just one of them.

I wouldn't buy a diesel unless it was in a large vehicle like a 4WD and was needed for carrying a load, towing or the like. In that scenario they are the best option in my opinion.

I'm happy to respect your opinion though, even if its wrong

Originally Posted by steane

You may know better, no-doubt you do, but I would and have bought petrols over diesels for the reasons I stated. If you think the modern diesel is more reliable and cheaper to run than a petrol then thats fine. I disagree, strongly.

Yes I do think diesels are more reliable and cheaper to run. Which is why all three of my normally driven vehicles are diesel. 2x cars and 1x rangerover.
The 1x rangerover that is petrol is mainly a garage ornament.

In the 5 years I've had my work car the only surprise cost has been a fuel injection pump dying. It cost me $130 for a replacement pump and took me 18 hours work to drop the engine/gearbox out, clean everything and reinstall.
If I charged that job at my usual hourly rate that car was still $3000 ahead on fuel cost over the petrol version. If I consider the labour free rather than time spent on AULRO then it was $5k ahead in fuel costs.

Originally Posted by steane

So as this isn't a VW fanboy thread and the question asked was regarding running and service cost, like I said, I'd go petrol and I'd go Japanese. Suzuki Swift comes to mind and you'd almost be guaranteed not to have to visit a dealer aside from routine servicing. Fun with a capital F to drive. There are other options as well, that's just one of them.

You'd go petrol and japanese?
Honestly I can't think of anything worse. Japanese fuel economy is terrible compared to europeans. Their parts are more expensive, their service intervals are amazingly short and there is no access to fix anything.
Further you'll find part numbers unique to the market the vehicle was sold in.

Nissan ball joints. $250 a pair in NZ. 20 quid in the UK for the exact same parts with a different part number.
Corolla washer jets, $220.
VAG factory moulded rubber floor matts, $60 for a set of four.
Audi brake rotors are cheaper than nissan brake rotors that are 3 inches smaller.

But the biggest problem. Japanese cars are made for driving at 80km/h on smooth roads. At that speed they are smooth and quiet. Take them to 100km/h and they get all out of sorts.
Small japanese cars buzz at 100km/h on even smooth seal. NVH is shocking when you get them on coarse chip. The japanese decided that small cars should be cheap and awful. To get refinement in japanese you have to buy a barge sized V6.

The japanese lost the plot completely with diesels back in 2000 when one of their premiers banned diesel vehicle use in several cities. Overnight the japanese car makers abandoned it and handed world-wide diesel domination to the Euros. Since then the Koreans have been learning fast.

Euro cars are built for doing 130km/h all day (often more). This makes them a long way ahead in NVH at 100km/h and the taller gearing gives them far better fuel economy.
They also handle corners which the japanese never really worked out.
The Euro car makers also appreciate that people buy small cars because they want small cars, not because they can only afford poverty pack.
They are the only option providing good NVH, great handling and quality interiors in a small size.

I was really hoping you'd say something like "I'd buy a Korean car".

Originally Posted by steane

I wouldn't buy a diesel unless it was in a large vehicle like a 4WD and was needed for carrying a load, towing or the like. In that scenario they are the best option in my opinion.

I'm happy to respect your opinion though, even if its wrong

So why post in a thread about small diesel cars if you would never buy one? It's like MR LR harping on about his V8 rangie in the diesel economy thread.

Sure thing Dougal. We'll most definitely have to agree to disagree.

When a person asks for advice about a small car, specifically a diesel and wants the advice regarding cost of running, reliabilty and servicing in-particular then it's quite reasonable to suggest an alternative option (ie petrol) that may not have been considered (some people are very 'one-eyed' you know). Maybe it has been considered. I don't know. However it's reasonable to try to assist even if it means offering a different take on things.

The person who started this thread can choose to take on board that advice or ignore it completely.

If I started this thread I know I'd ignore your advice (for example).

I guess, to also use a forum based analogy, it's like asking which OME shocks to buy and having someone suggest it might be better to consider a certain type of KONI as it will better suit the criteria. Not that big a deal really is it?

Or is this www.dougal.com and is there a set of rules I'm not aware of? If that's the case then I'd like to cancel my subscription thanks

I've never bought a new car .... but if I was after a commuter to keep for the long term .... I'd look closely at a petrol turbo renault clio ........ My sister has just bought one ....

Insane right .... Winner of Australia best light car ....

$17,000 drive away
3 cylinder (yep only 3), 900cc ... proper manual gearbox is a massive advantage, you just can't find proper manuals these days.
fixed price servicing
5year warranty (I think, verify that).
4.5L/100kms

So you know exactly where you are cost wise for the first five year... After that, service it yourself and drive it till in expires in a heap.

I'll no doubt be proven wrong, but for long term reliabilty, I reckon a little 3cylinder petrol motor will prove to be far more reliable than a diesel with there "maybe" injection issues and pumps/injectors that are worth the cars value when there a few years old.

Either that ... or something like a Hi-undi I30.

seeya,
shane L.

I am only looking at Diesels and yes I am leaning more towards a Euro car, when we had our mishap in the high country, we were given a Toyota Corolla as a courtesy car, has to be one of the worst cars I've been in and the fuel economy was about the same, maybe a tad more than the Amarok, the road noise was fine up to about 70kph, then slowly deteriated from there to 100kph, did not like it one bit, the Amarok with mud tyres was quieter, actually our old Toyota Camry V6 Vienta was a brilliant car(wide body) so I was suprised at how crap the Corolla was, but they are mid sized cars, so looking for a smaller car, but not Barina/Polo size, Golf/Astra is the size we are looking at.

I have been in a few small Jap cars over the years at work and with friends, nothing has been all that good really, never driven a diesel small car, or many Euro cars, so will be out there having a drive soon to see how they stack up.

Baz.

Originally Posted by steane

Sure thing Dougal. We'll most definitely have to agree to disagree.

When a person asks for advice about a small car, specifically a diesel and wants the advice regarding cost of running, reliabilty and servicing in-particular then it's quite reasonable to suggest an alternative option (ie petrol) that may not have been considered (some people are very 'one-eyed' you know). Maybe it has been considered. I don't know. However it's reasonable to try to assist even if it means offering a different take on things.

The person who started this thread can choose to take on board that advice or ignore it completely.

If I started this thread I know I'd ignore your advice (for example).

So you'd hypothetically start a thread about cars you cars you wouldn't buy because a mate heard from a tow-truck driver that he picks a lot of them up.
Yet you'd ignore advice from someone who actually owns and drives diesel cars, has for many years and knows the ins and outs of them.

You'd also assume that someone looking to buy a new car may not have considered the petrol option.

Makes perfect sense.

Originally Posted by Dougal

So you'd hypothetically start a thread about cars you cars you wouldn't buy because a mate heard from a tow-truck driver that he picks a lot of them up.
Yet you'd ignore advice from someone who actually owns and drives diesel cars, has for many years and knows the ins and outs of them.

You'd also assume that someone looking to buy a new car may not have considered the petrol option.

Makes perfect sense.

Actually, if you read what you've written it makes no sense at all, so I'm guessing you are a bit confused.

You've also assumed more than you should.

I own a diesel now, my last 4wd was a CR diesel, and i have driven a stack of modern diesels for thousands of kms. My job allows me the opportunity to drive and or deal with reviewers who have driven more cars than you've probably seen in NZ. Ive driven Amarok in the high country, skoda diesels on the old TG Oz race circuit, Korean R-series diesels in Hyundais and Kias. Hilux diesels, Ranger and Bt50, Triton, Pajero, VW R50 (did 2000kms in that one), RRS and D4 diesels (HC again). Mini diesel, X5 diesel and heaps I can't even remember anymore.

Ive seen first hand the issues that modern CR diesels have, and know the cost of maintaining and servicing them.

I actually prefer diesel engines but I'm not so one eyed that I can't admit that if you want low running costs, low servicing costs, reliability and even something as simple as less money per litre at the pump, that I would without question buy a petrol in a small car. I'm also free to pass that advice on to whoever I want even if it doesn't really suit you.

Not sure where any of my mates come into this but whatever. See a straw, clutch at it.