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Thread: Here we go again. Russians holding military " exercises " on the Ukranian border

  1. #81
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    A few stories now emerging about this in relation to the Ukraine - the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances

    It seems back when the USSR dissolved and Ukrainian declared independence it was the world's third largest nuclear power having inherited a large portion of the soviet nuclear arsenal. In 1994, Russia, the USA and the UK negotiated an agreement with Ukrainian to give up its weapons in return for guarantees of territorial security and integrity.

    The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations
    'Rouge' states such as North Korea and Iran, also being urged to give up nuclear weapons, must be watching with a degree of cynicism rising by the day.
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  2. #82
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    I think it was De Gaulle who said that treaties are like young women... they last as long as they last.

    The truth of the matter is:

    Russia needs the Crimea secure in its control. They will do whatever has to be done to ensure this.

    The West, when it comes down to it, doesn't really give two hoots and is not about to go to war over it - especially in a superpower confrontation, when its forces such as they are are set up for asymmetric warfare. The USA also simply cannot in $ terms afford another war, let alone the cost in blood....
    It's not broken. It's "Carbon Neutral".


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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladTepes View Post
    I think it was De Gaulle who said that treaties are like young women... they last as long as they last.

    The truth of the matter is:

    Russia needs the Crimea secure in its control. They will do whatever has to be done to ensure this.

    The West, when it comes down to it, doesn't really give two hoots and is not about to go to war over it - especially in a superpower confrontation, when its forces such as they are are set up for asymmetric warfare. The USA also simply cannot in $ terms afford another war, let alone the cost in blood....
    And that is the problem. As world we need to stand up and say enough is enough.
    If i was a rogue state then this tells me don't give up those weapons unless I am firing them at someone. This is also why the UN is a wast of time.
    Don't forget the US economy lives for war.

  4. #84
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    They do SAY enough is enough. They just can't, and won't, back it up militarily.

    The US economy usually does love a war BUT there has been so much of it of late they simply can't afford another one at this time without forcing the country into recession or possibly even a depression.

    Does anyone REALLY want to see a US/Russia conflict or a UN / Russia conflict?
    I think not.


    And yes the UN is a complete waste of time, packed full of people working to their own personal advantage at the cost of the rest of us. No wonder KRudd is trying to climb on board.
    It's not broken. It's "Carbon Neutral".


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    If anyone interested in reading stuff from on the ground there , seems a reasonable site with a variety of information from sources on the ground in english

    Ukraine Liveblog Day 23: Ukraine’s Interim Prime Minister Meets Obama | The Interpreter

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by sashadidi View Post
    If anyone interested in reading stuff from on the ground there , seems a reasonable site with a variety of information from sources on the ground in english

    Ukraine Liveblog Day 23: Ukraine’s Interim Prime Minister Meets Obama | The Interpreter
    I had a quick look at The Interpreter, and after following several "developing" stories that piqued my interest, I decided to look into the sources that were quoted. Unfortunately, the links provided didn't quite pan out (i.e. they led to nowhere instead of videos they were supposed to link to), so I googled the videos themselves. No luck googling directly either.

    So I decided to take a look at "The Interpreter" structure, funding etc, just to get an idea where the money (and potential influence) was coming from.

    Two non-profit organisations: London based Herzen Foundation, and New York based Institute of Modern Russia were providing the funding... OK, next step, find out who they are. Googling Herzen Foundation led to an Amsterdam based Alexander Herzen Foundation that was established in the 60's and was aimed at publishing self-published work of Russian dissidents during the soviet era... so far so good, but that foundation was wound down in 1998.

    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Herzen_Foundation"]Alexander Herzen Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    No mention of a London based Herzen Foundation (borrowing a long established foundation's name for legitimacy... another "Syrian Observatory for Human Rights"?... hmmm, anyhow...)

    Onto the Institute of Modern Russia - headed by a Pavel Khodorovsky... interesting name - yup, Mikhail Khodorovsky's son. Now, anyone familiar with the name will know he is a Russian oil tycoon (was the wealthiest man in Russia for quite some time) before Putin stripped him of his questionably gotten gains. So the motivation for the paper may have more to do with having an axe to grind / thwarting Putin rather than reporting with integrity.

    Lastly, the editor in chief of The Interpreter (basically the guy who decides what's printed) is not only US based, but is a Dartmouth College graduate (a US based Ivy League uni)... reporting on Russian / Ukranian goings on... interesting! Or rather telling...

    His LinkedIn profile: Michael Weiss | LinkedIn

    Skilled Campaigner, he claims! - Previous work included campaiging for US congressmen. Other experience: (unbiassed) reporting from Syria... I need read no more.


    You can make up your own mind, but my conclusion is this: Take what's printed with a good pinch of salt. Understand that what's being printed is most likely aimed at feeding "source material" to US based journalists that don't have time, resources or inclination to do it themselves. So basically for influencing what gets reported in the English speaking world by someone whose fortune was taken back by the state he stole it from 'cos he was an idiot and thought he was untouchable.

    In other words... it's all BS IMHO... OK, I now have to do some real work

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    Russia can easily turn the US into ashes, the final program News of the Week on Russian TV - YouTube

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  8. #88
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    International politics between east and west never change, while we are reading about Ukrainian and the wish of Crimea to become independent or part of Russia, in Spain the Catatonia people like to separate from the rest of Spain and there are not much news about it.
    Apparently there will be a referendum soon which the Spanish goverment do not recognize..........interesting times ahead

  9. #89
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    Veneto in Italy is going through the same, independence motions as well. Apparently they're sick of tourist money from Venice being siphoned off to Rome without much of it coming back.

    That and the Americans have kicked out all diplomats from the Syrian embassy in Washington.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Offender90 View Post
    ... so far so good, but that foundation was wound down in 1998.

    Pavel Khodorovsky... interesting name - yup, Mikhail Khodorovsky's son. Now, anyone familiar with the name will know he is a Russian oil tycoon (was the wealthiest man in Russia for quite some time) before Putin stripped him of his questionably gotten gains. So the motivation for the paper may have more to do with having an axe to grind / thwarting Putin rather than reporting with integrity.

    Lastly, the editor in chief of The Interpreter (basically the guy who decides what's printed) is not only US based, but is a Dartmouth College graduate (a US based Ivy League uni)... reporting on Russian / Ukranian goings on... interesting! Or rather telling...

    His LinkedIn profile: Michael Weiss | LinkedIn

    Skilled Campaigner, he claims! - Previous work included campaiging for US congressmen. Other experience: (unbiassed) reporting from Syria... I need read no more.


    You can make up your own mind, but my conclusion is this: Take what's printed with a good pinch of salt. Understand that what's being printed is most likely aimed at feeding "source material" to US based journalists that don't have time, resources or inclination to do it themselves. So basically for influencing what gets reported in the English speaking world by someone whose fortune was taken back by the state he stole it from 'cos he was an idiot and thought he was untouchable.

    In other words... it's all BS IMHO... OK, I now have to do some real work
    Interesting!!! The propaganda war continues on both sides...... we sometimes watch US TV and then the Russian Tv and its amazing the different angles on the same story.
    Mikhail Khodorovsky , yes I am sure he did not get his wealth by being nice..... just presents a good face to the world as do all the "bizzinessmen"
    Re Ukraine
    I hear stories on the ground from my relatives like Maidan recruited a neighbour they knew from outside Kiev, come and help us and you will be paid..
    She goes they give her cash US$4000!!!! but its fake and cannot be used and she gets sick and goes home and is allegedly full of amphetamines given to her by the Maidan...
    Others report lawlessness in the eastern Ukraine and lots of thugs with pistols and Ak47s using stand over tactics, again the ordinary person gets done over the the bizzinessmen win again whether from Ukraine or Russia.
    .
    I wonder if the young Crimeans will want to go to the Russian army as it still has conscription..
    Ordinary guy is not winning here sadly

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