Japan's military buildup

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Originally Posted by jc109

Another great read if you've got the time:

The Collins Class Submarine Story: Steel, Spies and Spin - Peter Yule, Derek Woolner - Google Books

BTW, you'll get a glimpse of me on the cover.

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Also very good viewing on this subject is a 2dvd set called Submarines The Collins Class HMAS Rankin. It follows Rankin on a 6 month deployment from work-up off the WA coast and all the way to the RIMPAC war games where she kicks some US navy ass. But also shows many equipment failures and breakdowns but gives you a idea how good these subs are when fully fit.

Even if your not a navy buff it's still a very interesting insight into life on board a Collins class submarine and the price the sailors and their families pay.

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Originally Posted by disco man

Also very good viewing on this subject is a 2dvd set called Submarines The Collins Class HMAS Rankin. It follows Rankin on a 6 month deployment from work-up off the WA coast and all the way to the RIMPAC war games where she kicks some US navy ass. But also shows many equipment failures and breakdowns but gives you a idea how good these subs are when fully fit.



Even if your not a navy buff it's still a very interesting insight into life on board a Collins class submarine and the price the sailors and their families pay.

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Yep, concur. Great series. Some good people featured too. Some are even still in...

Did any of you read Cameron Stewart's article on this very topic in the Weekend Oz? Pretty entertaining, really, looking at it from the perspective of an interested onlooker as opposed to someone who is directly affected by it.

A lot of the personel problems have stemmed from 30+ years of "It's alright mate, the Yanks will save us", coupled with "remember Vietnam and how screwed up our soldiers were"

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Originally Posted by bob10

We are living in interesting times, Bob


BBC News - Why is Japan building up its navy?

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Barack Obama confirmed yesterday that the USA would be obligated to defend Tokyo in a confrontation against Beijing over a set of disputed Islands(sounds familiar) Obama is urging both sides to try and resolve this long running dispute peacefully.

But he has said the USA takes no position on if the Islands are the dominion of Japan or China.But has noted historically Japan has administered to islands triggering the USA's NATO obligations to defend its ally.


Why would Obama risk trade agreements with China and commit forces if needed at a time when US congress is trying to reduce military spending and reduce troop numbers.

I might be wrong but i think the USA owes China a fair amount of money. I wonder if this is another factor?

Any thoughts guys?

Politics, Money or Religion.
Always one of the above.

Someone questioned funding for the new subs.

Like Landy Andy, I too listened to that radio program on aunty and it was stated that the current government have already earmarked funding for the project and want them built in SA again.

So, our extra working life , our tax on our investments , our increased pension entitlement age , and our decreased health services , might just help pay for our new subs....oh ....don't forget the new fighter aircraft too ,

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Originally Posted by jc109

For many years the biggest issue has been manpower. Then comes lack of training in perishable skills due to platform availability.

I'd be surprised if the current level of serviceability was prompting an extension of their service life. It ain't that great (from what I gather these days). The real fear is probably what we have been forecasting for a while. Namely too few people to man too many boats and a gap between the two classes leaving personnel to get itchy feet or go stale. They need a smooth transition or there will be a lot of wasted effort and money.

Again, don't get me wrong. They're a great boat and by far the best in their class when fully operational. Or at least they were when I was in. Lack of funding and a long period of political lip service has gutted what had eventually become almost unbeatable.

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Spoke to a mate yesterday, ex submariner. He still keeps his finger on the pulse. The RAN has only two operational crews for the six boats. According to him, word from the mess deck is having women in the crews is one of the reasons trained personnel are leaving . Bob

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Originally Posted by disco man

Barack Obama confirmed yesterday that the USA would be obligated to defend Tokyo in a confrontation against Beijing over a set of disputed Islands(sounds familiar) Obama is urging both sides to try and resolve this long running dispute peacefully.

But he has said the USA takes no position on if the Islands are the dominion of Japan or China.But has noted historically Japan has administered to islands triggering the USA's NATO obligations to defend its ally.


Why would Obama risk trade agreements with China and commit forces if needed at a time when US congress is trying to reduce military spending and reduce troop numbers.

I might be wrong but i think the USA owes China a fair amount of money. I wonder if this is another factor?

Any thoughts guys?

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My thoughts...it's hard for the US to admit they've joined sides with the Asian bully (Nippon), so they will go down with that ship if necessary, essentially through dogged determination, ignorance and a sense of elitism.

Obviously the size of China's economy and the massive debt the US has with them cannot be ignored. The possibility that the US will take the first opportunity to walk away from that debt by trying to discredit China in such a territorial dispute, also clearly exists as the US has changed currency in the past, effectively nullifying foreign debt.

Sadly, our govt has made statements and postured militarily in support of Japan and the US on this issue. I personally am embarrassed, that after what our troops and Darwin residents went through with the Japanese empire ambitions, in contrast to no past aggression from the Chinese, our leaders make such ill considered pro Japanese statements on our behalf.

I do however thank the US for helping us and NZ when the Japs were on the doorstep. I wish they'd acknowledge that during that time China was their ally allowing US pilots to land in China after bombing raids over Japan. Short memories and hidden agendas obviously prevail........

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Originally Posted by Greatsouthernland

My thoughts...it's hard for the US to admit they've joined sides with the Asian bully (Nippon), so they will go down with that ship if necessary, essentially through dogged determination, ignorance and a sense of elitism.

Obviously the size of China's economy and the massive debt the US has with them cannot be ignored. The possibility that the US will take the first opportunity to walk away from that debt by trying to discredit China in such a territorial dispute, also clearly exists as the US has changed currency in the past, effectively nullifying foreign debt.

Sadly, our govt has made statements and postured militarily in support of Japan and the US on this issue. I personally am embarrassed, that after what our troops and Darwin residents went through with the Japanese empire ambitions, in contrast to no past aggression from the Chinese, our leaders make such ill considered pro Japanese statements on our behalf.

I do however thank the US for helping us and NZ when the Japs were on the doorstep. I wish they'd acknowledge that during that time China was their ally allowing US pilots to land in China after bombing raids over Japan. Short memories and hidden agendas obviously prevail........

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It's one way to side step the massive debt the USA has to china somewhere in the trillions i think.But the USA is also looking at some form of intervention in the Russia and Ukraine crisis plus with ongoing involvement in the middle east can the USA be effective on so many fronts?

And what would the economic repercussions to the USA be when so many items the Americans enjoy come from China.Many American companys have their goods made in China to save costs,if a conflict with China was to occur and that link was broken how many American company's would go under?

The American economy is far from out of trouble,i don't even know if the USA could even fund all these conflicts they are so keen to be apart of.

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Originally Posted by disco man

It's one way to side step the massive debt the USA has to china somewhere in the trillions i think.But the USA is also looking at some form of intervention in the Russia and Ukraine crisis plus with ongoing involvement in the middle east can the USA be effective on so many fronts?

:) Hard to imagine, hence why they should choose wisely their words on the island dispute, it's likely they'd "deputise" us to do some of their work, remembering the deputy label bush gave little johny.

And what would the economic repercussions to the USA be when so many items the Americans enjoy come from China.Many American companys have their goods made in China to save costs,if a conflict with China was to occur and that link was broken how many American company's would go under?

:) they'd print more of their NEW money, they're good at printing money and this devalues the foreign debt too...something China raised concerns about previously.

The American economy is far from out of trouble,i don't even know if the USA could even fund all these conflicts they are so keen to be apart of.

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:) just like we have credit cards, they borrow/print. Eventually though, the debt becomes due or they can't manage the interest bill. This is the tipping point where I reckon they could default...but probably create another GFC and make the rest of the world suffer first.