Thread: Japan's military buildup

Originally Posted by jc109

Hey disco man, when it comes to defence I think this is one area where Aussie jobs shouldn't be a consideration until every other factor has been considered. Boiled down, when someone's shooting at you you need to be 100% sure what you're pointing back is the best available. Who cares where it's made.

I am not suggesting Australian sailors should have sub-standard equipment even though the government has given the Australian navy some very poor warships over the years with a lot of 'fitted for but not with' weapon systems. The Collins class subs after early teething troubles went on to become very impressive weapons that were built by Australians in Australian shipyards and they are far better than the Kilo class and the Upholder class so i don't see any reason why Australia can't do it again.

Originally Posted by Ratel10mm

Strategic considerations. Like, what if the country making your weapons is now the one shooting at you? Amongst others.

Granted, but practically speaking it is highly unlikely that we would ever find ourselves in that situation. There really aren't that many options that tick the boxes hinted at in my earlier qualifier.

Originally Posted by disco man

I am not suggesting Australian sailors should have sub-standard equipment even though the government has given the Australian navy some very poor warships over the years with a lot of 'fitted for but not with' weapon systems. The Collins class subs after early teething troubles went on to become very impressive weapons that were built by Australians in Australian shipyards and they are far better than the Kilo class and the Upholder class so i don't see any reason why Australia can't do it again.

I know you weren't directly suggesting that, but I had to bite as I have relevant first hand experience and this and other general funding/political issues and their ramifications for those at sea (and elsewhere) are keenly felt.

90% (I can't back that up...) of the issues you alluded to are a result of our determination to take a proven design, improve it, and build it here. So, while it would be nice to build here that should not be the goal. An aspiration, yes, but the aim of this exercise, absolutely not. And if we buy from allies, of which Japan is one, no worries. And let's not kid ourselves that we'd have a functioning navy or military without foreign hardware big or small.

From what I heard on ABC wireless they are thinking of buying the technology from Japan and building in South Aust.
Im sure a google will bring the info up.
Andrew

Originally Posted by jc109

I know you weren't directly suggesting that, but I had to bite as I have relevant first hand experience and this and other general funding/political issues and their ramifications for those at sea (and elsewhere) are keenly felt.

90% (I can't back that up...) of the issues you alluded to are a result of our determination to take a proven design, improve it, and build it here. So, while it would be nice to build here that should not be the goal. An aspiration, yes, but the aim of this exercise, absolutely not. And if we buy from allies, of which Japan is one, no worries. And let's not kid ourselves that we'd have a functioning navy or military without foreign hardware big or small.

Well said mate the funding shortfalls of the navy is unacceptable since the Perth class destroyers were all scraped we haven't had a destroyer. In the 60s through to the early 80s Australia had a very impressive navy 2x aircraft carriers,6xsubs,5xdestroyers,6xfrigates a very good mix of British and American hardware. I personally would like to see some Australian involvement in the construction process if at all possible.

This BBC report has opened my eyes , I new that Japan's constitution stops them being an aggressor , but I was surprised just how big there Navy was . With the growth of China's Navy , If the two get into a conflict It's going to be messy , also what implications will It have on the region including Australia . I'm sure this is being watched by us and our allies . That brings me back to the point about us having our own refining capability , If we side with one side or another ,then we will become involved . It's all hypothetical at this stage !!..

Originally Posted by jc109

Hey disco man, when it comes to defence I think this is one area where Aussie jobs shouldn't be a consideration until every other factor has been considered. Boiled down, when someone's shooting at you you need to be 100% sure what you're pointing back is the best available. Who cares where it's made.

Something to consider is , if the country of origin is in an alliance with who ever you may be at loggerheads with, or disagrees with our politics, kiss goodbye to any spares, or technical back up. I think that is one reason Australia did not keep with the Mirage family of aircraft, France was a bit suss in that regard. Also, if you don't build here, you lose your shipbuilding industry, and we can not afford to lose those skills. Bob

Originally Posted by bob10

Something to consider is , if the country of origin is in an alliance with who ever you may be at loggerheads with, or disagrees with our politics, kiss goodbye to any spares, or technical back up. I think that is one reason Australia did not keep with the Mirage family of aircraft, France was a bit suss in that regard. Also, if you don't build here, you lose your shipbuilding industry, and we can not afford to lose those skills. Bob

Fully agree bob i would love to see them built here.Once you lose those sort of skills it takes years to get them back we know where we went wrong with the Collins class boats and i think Australia has the skills to build world class diesel submarines.