Climate change? what climate change?

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Originally Posted by frantic

Mick the links I gave showed warragamba overflowed in 2012, we all know about Qld, and Victoria went from 25% to 75% in 3 months.
Do you honestly believe that with an almost 50% population increase in vic! You know your growing faster than sydney, and no new dam since 1984 there is sufficient water? Sydney is in the same basket ,just the dam built in 1960 was a more forward plan, that is close to it's providing limit now. Vics pop has gone from just over 4 million to almost 6, sydney has storage capacity over 2500gl Melbourne is 1800gl, warragamba holds about 2000gl.
Both states had plans for a new dam ,(Mitchell river and welcome reef Nsw Mary in Qld)that would have cost 1/2-1/5th the desal plant crap , but each where greenified.
So Nsw dams overflowed 2012, Qld underwater 2011, = in my book 2/3 or 66% correct to me or a fail to the never ever full 07 prediction. That they are draining faster should not be a surprise.
Victoria to highs of 88%, higher this year than last for same time, and Geelong regions to 97.6% is pretty close;)

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Before the drought, in 1996, we (Victoria) were in the high 90's in capacity. No water restrictions. We had very green lawns and water wasting sprinklers were often seen spraying gallons of water on to lawns. Now we have permanent water restrictions (which are termed water saving measures). Thompson was doing as it was intended, drought proofing Melbourne.
Now, the best we can muster is 80%. Geelong is at 69.3%. Iand peaked last year at 92.7% but do practice onerous permanent water saving measures.
Yes, O'Shannassy Res is at 93.8% but Maroondah Res is at 29.7%. All the reservoirs are currently at 70.8% and not much rain is expected this year to top up levels.
As I said before, your figures are out of date. I have had a look at the figures and since 1998, Melbourne's reservoir levels have not achiuvue anything better than 81.4% in November 2013. Where did you get this 88%?

read post #13.....follow the instructions

you don't have to if you don't want to but it's there

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Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

read post #13.....follow the instructions

you don't have to if you don't want to but it's there

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Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

open gold coast location you will clearly see the averages of rain, temp etc.

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is hardly

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Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

all over Australia

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Put up a link supporting your statement or it will be dismissed as an ill informed opinion.

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

Well, since the last drought, we have had a bit of wet weather, but, the dams have never achieved 100% fill and we are heading into another drought.
I think sometime into the next few years we will be wanting another desal plant.

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The fact is that since the Thompson and Dartmouth dams were built in Vic, we have NEVER had our storages at 100%.

Right now they are a level which would provide water for Melbourne for in excess of 6 years (according to Melbourne Water) even if we received NO rain in that time.... highly unlikely you'd have to agree. They do allow for normal inflows to get their figure.

Mick you suggest we'll need another desal plant? The one we have has NEVER been used and by all accounts has double the capacity we may ever need. Why then would we need another multi billion dollar plant? They run on electricity (and they use a LOT of it) which in Victoria is principally generated by burning brown coal ...... very environmentally friendly I'm sure..... NOT

The problem with all this is that we are trying to extrapolate statistics from records which at the very best have existed for about 150 years, a mere blink of an eye in the history of the planet.

I don't know if the planet is truly warming, and know even less if any such climate change is man made. I think it's good that industries are being encouraged to reduce emissions etc, that just has to be good in the long term for our environment and the planet in general.

What really gets on my goat is that these days if ANY scientist decides to stand up and say that our climate is going through a cyclical change (this can mean a cycle of 10 million years or more), or if indeed that any warming is NOT man made, he is shouted down and pilloried by his pro-warming peers or indeed the populist political parties of the time.

I await some truly scientific evidence that any warming is man made. I read a lot about it, and I do research things. Both sides seem to come up with so called 'FACTS' and dramatic pictures (such as Al Gore with his repetitive pictures of ice bergs breaking off of a glacier, which they have done for millenia) but failing to actually show irrefutable evidence to back up their views.

Panic does not generate rational responses.

RANT OVER!:D

Thanks for your great post Alan.

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Originally Posted by wardy1

The fact is that since the Thompson and Dartmouth dams were built in Vic, we have NEVER had our storages at 100%.

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You are so right. Building dams is not the solution. The truth is our rainfall is diminishing.

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Originally Posted by wardy1

Right now they are a level which would provide water for Melbourne for in excess of 6 years (according to Melbourne Water) even if we received NO rain in that time.... highly unlikely you'd have to agree. They do allow for normal inflows to get their figure.

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And how long did the last drought last?

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Originally Posted by wardy1

Mick you suggest we'll need another desal plant? The one we have has NEVER been used and by all accounts has double the capacity we may ever need. Why then would we need another multi billion dollar plant? They run on electricity (and they use a LOT of it) which in Victoria is principally generated by burning brown coal ...... very environmentally friendly I'm sure..... NOT

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The problem with the current desal plant is it was built at the end of the drought. It didn't come on line until it wasn't needed. It will be needed in the future and when the populace see it in operation, when needed in the next twenty year drought, they will be wanting more water that it can produce. It is currently designed to supply Melbourne but we will be needing to supply Victoria.
Yes, it is powered by the mud burners and we have to change that.

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Originally Posted by wardy1

The problem with all this is that we are trying to extrapolate statistics from records which at the very best have existed for about 150 years, a mere blink of an eye in the history of the planet.

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We are looking at the evidence from many thousands of years to predict climate change

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Originally Posted by wardy1

I don't know if the planet is truly warming, and know even less if any such climate change is man made. I think it's good that industries are being encouraged to reduce emissions etc, that just has to be good in the long term for our environment and the planet in general.

What really gets on my goat is that these days if ANY scientist decides to stand up and say that our climate is going through a cyclical change (this can mean a cycle of 10 million years or more), or if indeed that any warming is NOT man made, he is shouted down and pilloried by his pro-warming peers or indeed the populist political parties of the time.

I await some truly scientific evidence that any warming is man made. I read a lot about it, and I do research things. Both sides seem to come up with so called 'FACTS' and dramatic pictures (such as Al Gore with his repetitive pictures of ice bergs breaking off of a glacier, which they have done for millenia) but failing to actually show irrefutable evidence to back up their views.

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The evidence is out there. So many sites and scientific articles to link to. The argument has shifted from whether climate change exists or not to the degree of the effect.

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Originally Posted by wardy1

Panic does not generate rational responses.

RANT OVER!:D

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And a good rant it was.

I've made no opinions at all.

Who is going to dismiss my statements as ill informed opinions?

I certainly don't have to prove anything to anyone either.

Pacific presidents speak out against Australia's stand on climate change - Australia Network News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

You typed:

The article you linked to stated:

Where did you get your figures from?

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I just read the thread, perhaps is for here were the figures come?

"The sea temperatures are already 1 or 2 degrees above normal, and right along the South American coast, perhaps 2 or 3 degrees above normal," Professor Stone said.

"That's the telltale sign of an early stage to an El Nino event."

Professor Stone says the sub-surface temperature across the central and eastern Pacific is warmer by up to 5 degrees"

About Professor Roger Stone

And also HERE

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Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

All minimum and maximum average temperatures are up by an average of 3*c all over Australia

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Originally Posted by Chucaro

I just read the thread, perhaps is for here were the figures come?

"The sea temperatures are already 1 or 2 degrees above normal, and right along the South American coast, perhaps 2 or 3 degrees above normal," Professor Stone said.

"That's the telltale sign of an early stage to an El Nino event."

Professor Stone says the sub-surface temperature across the central and eastern Pacific is warmer by up to 5 degrees"

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Arthur, this certainly doesn't support Dennis's statement. Can't even claim to be poor paraphrasing.

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Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

I've made no opinions at all.

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At the moment it's falling into the opinion column

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Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

Who is going to dismiss my statements as ill informed opinions?

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I just have.

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Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

I certainly don't have to prove anything to anyone either.

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No you don't, but please don't post remarks that can't be backed up when scrutinised.

Also, looking at your sub sequential posts it's becoming clear what your initial motive for posting was.

Regards
Andrew