OHS GONE MAD

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Originally Posted by 85 county

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Originally Posted by frantic

You have never seen a lock out procedure? One that would say if x contractor or anyone else needs to get in here they need to isolate power and valves to stop it being used. The bit of paper would be signed by both contractor, trade doing isolation and the boss otherwise no start. A lot of these bits of paper have a history stemming from a past accident. .

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you missed my point. how can you do a lock out if no one knows. as in you example the steam from one oven is sent to the adjoining oven. If it is not known then it can or probably will not be isolated. and in the case of steam there needs to be two closed and locked valves.

Signing a bit of paper will not replace knowledge

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Actually that was my example.

Me thinks there is something missing in this discussion. Safe Operating Procedures, including the written instructions for lock out procedures, should mean that local knowledge is not a requirement for the safe undertaking of a procedure.

It is poor management for any workplace if safety on site requires that particular staff are present. Staff leave, go on holidays, may be ill on a sickie or even die from something unrelated to the workplace. Safe work practices should be able to continue without them.

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Originally Posted by Greatsouthernland

Just a theory, but the old dog had a grand plan to bust the unions and halve the wages. But the company the old dog ran found itself selling out to a group of bigger dogs and took a very generous departing payment through shares etc. also old dog had other interests in perks such as being on reserve bank board and retiring in style. The old plan was then upended due to ensuing mining boom and labour shortage.

New dogs and new plan, autonomous vehicles and economy of scale...

Just a theory.....:angel:

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Just clarifying that what I meant was awesome about the old days was the 7.5 hour shift, as opposed to the 12 hour shift. Less fatigue and more active young people in the community's sports teams, plus more dad's home for tea and before kids go to bed.

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Actually that was my example.

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Me thinks there is something missing in this discussion. Safe Operating Procedures, including the written instructions for lock out procedures, should mean that local knowledge is not a requirement for the safe undertaking of a procedure.

It is poor management for any workplace if safety on site requires that particular staff are present. Staff leave, go on holidays, may be ill on a sickie or even die from something unrelated to the workplace. Safe work practices should be able to continue without them.

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right I agree with that. But how do safe operating procedures come about? are they accessible or locked in some uni educated middle managements office.

Its all very well saying, " steam pipe must be isolated twice upstream of works" but where are the upstream valves, what about back flow etc.
So having a manual around somewhere is great. But first you have to locate it, read it or fined the applicable bit. Then locate the valves etc etc so in reality having the manual is a waste of time as is the associated paper work.
Now if the manual had schematics and flow, preferably as a site layout with all valves etc ID, labeled etc, then it would be an asset. but as to date i have yet to see such a manual nor meet an OSH expert who was worth his salt in the real world. Even though some of them have been quite smart and do take onboard what is said to them. but there is i believe the requirement for them to walk the sanerio. so that’s the end of that

What's wrong with a big red sign over the entry saying Close Steam Shut Valves Before Entering Or You Will Be Killed.

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Originally Posted by 85 county

right I agree with that. But how do safe operating procedures come about? are they accessible or locked in some uni educated middle managements office ...

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The following is part of the begining of the Safe Work Practices policy at my work.
Safe work procedures should be used to:

• Minimise the risk of injury/illness
• Provide individuals with training in safe, efficient procedures
• Instruct new employees on their job as part of orientation/induction
• Ensure procedures comply with WHS legislation, standards and facility policies
• Maximise the ability of staff to carry out tasks accurately, efficiently and safely
• Improve work methods.

Remember - Consultation Is Crucial: consult the experts in the task - that is the team members that regularly conduct the task as part of the job function. The more people involved the better the control and the more sustainable the outcome. For some processes or tasks it may be necessary to seek the input of a person with mechanical, electrical or other technical competence. This may be through in-house expertise or the services of an external expert.

This is the process:
Step 1 - Observe Task
Step 2 - Break Task into Steps
Step 3 - Identify Hazards or Loss Potential for Every Step
Step 4 - Review Whether Each Step in the Task Is Being Performed In the Most Appropriate Manner
Step 5 - Develop Controls
Step 6 - Safety Rule Development
Step 7 - Writing the SWP
Step 8 - Test and Approve the SWP
Step 9 - Implement the SWP
Step 10 - Update and Maintain the SWP

A few years ago I was working at a remote NT mine site as a serviceman refueling heavy earthmoving machinery .Saftey procedures were over the top and mine managment seemed to use saftey to intimadate and control the workers and the saftey performance was fairly poor .In light of the not so good saftey record I asked a supervisor why the cows that wandered all around the mine site including the haul roads had such a good saftey record, as they did not have to wear saftey glasses, high vis clothes ,saftey boots and the bulls did not have to tag out the cows when they serviced them ? The answer involved several Fs Cs and the word idiot , I assumed he was talking about the saftey officers ,it could not have been about me or the cows Doug

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Originally Posted by 85 county

right I agree with that. But how do safe operating procedures come about? are they accessible or locked in some uni educated middle managements office.

Its all very well saying, " steam pipe must be isolated twice upstream of works" but where are the upstream valves, what about back flow etc.
So having a manual around somewhere is great. But first you have to locate it, read it or fined the applicable bit. Then locate the valves etc etc so in reality having the manual is a waste of time as is the associated paper work.
Now if the manual had schematics and flow, preferably as a site layout with all valves etc ID, labeled etc, then it would be an asset. but as to date i have yet to see such a manual nor meet an OSH expert who was worth his salt in the real world. Even though some of them have been quite smart and do take onboard what is said to them. but there is i believe the requirement for them to walk the sanerio. so that’s the end of that

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Hi 85,

As you are in SA, check out this website SafeWork SA

Can I suggest you ask who are your elected safety representatives where you work, your supervisor should be able to tell you and there should be a contact list in the lunchroom or notice board. These guys/girls will be able to answer your specific workplace questions, the policies and procedures for your workplace are not secret, you can ask to see them when ever you like, ask your supervisor to show you where they are.

If there is anything that worries you regarding safety where you work, you must inform your supervisor immediately, after notifying others in the area, don't wait until end of shift. If your supervisor doesn't give you a satisfactory answer or ignores your request for information, go up the chain, if this is not possible, ring the contact number on the Safework SA website.

I hope this helps.

One more thing, you do not need to commence any task if you believe it is unsafe, talk with your supervisor in the first instance, alternatively a safety rep (who you can instruct to keep it confidential), or if those 2 steps don't satisfy you, escalate it if possible, otherwise again call Safework SA.

Cheers.

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Originally Posted by 354 chamberlain

A few years ago I was working at a remote NT mine site as a serviceman refueling heavy earthmoving machinery .Saftey procedures were over the top and mine managment seemed to use saftey to intimadate and control the workers and the saftey performance was fairly poor .In light of the not so good saftey record I asked a supervisor why the cows that wandered all around the mine site including the haul roads had such a good saftey record, as they did not have to wear saftey glasses, high vis clothes ,saftey boots and the bulls did not have to tag out the cows when they serviced them ? The answer involved several Fs Cs and the word idiot , I assumed he was talking about the saftey officers ,it could not have been about me or the cows Doug

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We had a haul road through a station with black cows seasonally crossing it, had several quad road trains clean one up at night.

A funny suggestion came up to make the cows wear safety vests at night as black clothing is hard to see in the dark :D

Another suggestion was to paint reflective white paint on each side of the cow or swap them for zebras :D

Both were rejected and in the end nothing happened, it was just accepted as a risk with financial consequence, drivers were told not to swerve to avoid them, just back off and let it happen. Not that an experienced semi driver with 4 trailers is going to swerve to miss a cow!!

The station owners didn't mind, they got about 3 times the price they would have seen if the cow made it to market. :o

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Originally Posted by Greatsouthernland

Just clarifying that what I meant was awesome about the old days was the 7.5 hour shift, as opposed to the 12 hour shift. Less fatigue and more active young people in the community's sports teams, plus more dad's home for tea and before kids go to bed.

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8's are crap.. 12's are brilliant...

I got some much more quality time with my family on 12's

Sure you miss a few dinners and bed times, but you also get long blocks off to make up for it.

Not many 8(7.6)ers get out and home much earlier than at least an hour after they finish...

DNA rosters mean they miss half the events anyway and Nights just suck, waiting to go in at 11pm...

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Originally Posted by Tombie

8's are crap.. 12's are brilliant...

I got some much more quality time with my family on 12's

Sure you miss a few dinners and bed times, but you also get long blocks off to make up for it.

Not many 8(7.6)ers get out and home much earlier than at least an hour after they finish...

DNA rosters mean they miss half the events anyway and Nights just suck, waiting to go in at 11pm...

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Fair point, goes to show what's not good for some is good for others and vice versa...from a 'fatigue' point of view though, wouldn't 12 hours create more problems? I'm thinking in terms of two weeks on one week off, first week 12 hour day shift, second week 12 hour night shift, 7 days off and repeat.