Thread: has Australia dropped the ball on solar?

Originally Posted by isuzurover

H – Flexible power production (no more baseload) – German Energy Transition

A properly distributed and planned energy network can minimise the need for "traditional" baseload power.

In AU both Governments, power authorities and the coal industry like to perpetuate the baseload argument, because to do otherwise would mean we need to upgrade transmission lines, improve planning and set up properly connected networks between regions.

e.g. there are very few days where it is not sunny or windy on one of the coasts. A DC transmission link from the east coast network to Darwin and Alice springs and another to the Perth SWIS would be a start.

http://www.originenergy.com.au/resou...ity-market.jpg

So that article mentions that they will use natural gas peaker plants, to keep up with low demands, much the same as we do now? nothing written however about excess load, voltage and frequency stability and all the actual aspects that are currently effecting the areas that are at saturation point of PV

DC interconnectors have losses, Loy yang to Launceston is a far cry from the latrobe valley to perth. plus they also have shut downs, what happend when you become reliant upon the opposing coastline and the interconnector trips? how much redundancy are you going to build into the grid?

And again, Voltage control and frequency control on large scale is a huge issue, especially with the size of what would be out nation wide grid. when they start smelters up, the grid and generators know about it

The best part, who is going to pay the bill?

Originally Posted by Chucaro

Not dream a reality, in 2012 German solar power plants produced a world record 22 gigawatts of electricity – equal to 20 nuclear power stations at full capacity – through the midday hours of Friday and Saturday, the head of a renewable energy think tank has said ... Norbert Allnoch, director of the Institute of the Renewable Energy Industry in Muenster, said the 22 gigawatts of solar power fed into the national grid on Saturday met nearly 50% of the nation's midday electricity needs.
The Abu Dhabi plant is a 100-megawatt solar-thermal project at idiots to invest there even if they have oil.
The Sahara desert it is not a small patch of land and not to mention when the £35.7billion supergrid would allow European countries to share electricity from te eco-friendly plant.
Apple in USA also invested in 2 large plants and USA is not a small country
As I have said, as long as there are easy options without vision there will be excuses to knock back solar or wind generated energy.

You are mistaking my points, the issue is not the ability to produce energy, I mean, I have installed a little more than a fair share of rooftop PV over the last few years

Its the ability to produce it continuously, and with good control, energy is more than just Watts, frequency and voltage need to be regulated

Solar thermal is a closer step, as it can run a generator, which is good for the issues I have spoken about, but it don't work real well at night time

And again, you keep cherry picking these things that make the ideals seem great, but a midday peak production, that is theoretical, not measured, is far from providing 24hr stable electricity

And again again, great supplement no doubt, excellent to see it move along, but a long way off from being fully sustainable, which I doubt will be in my lifetime

Oh, Air conditioning peak load is primarily the cause of most issues and huge uptakes in power consumption, so do your bit on turn off the A/C

Originally Posted by rovercare

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And again, Voltage control and frequency control on large scale is a huge issue, especially with the size of what would be out nation wide grid. when they start smelters up, the grid and generators know about it

The best part, who is going to pay the bill?

I am typing this from Germany, powered most likely by solar power as it is midday here and the sun is shining. Voltage and frequency are extremely stable 24/7 throughout all parts of Germany I have been to.

We will eventually be forced to do this anyway eventually, and doing it earlier will create jobs at a time when many in manufacturing and construction are being laid off.

There are plenty of options as for who pays - BOO or BOOT schemes for example. Obviously subsidies would be needed, however these would be paid back in jobs and future economic development.

Originally Posted by isuzurover

I am typing this from Germany, powered most likely by solar power as it is midday here and the sun is shining. Voltage and frequency are extremely stable 24/7 throughout all parts of Germany I have been to.

We will eventually be forced to do this anyway eventually, and doing it earlier will create jobs at a time when many in manufacturing and construction are being laid off.

There are plenty of options as for who pays - BOO or BOOT schemes for example. Obviously subsidies would be needed, however these would be paid back in jobs and future economic development.

You have your Voltmeter and Oscilloscope handy?

Consumer pays, that's an inevitable part of the equation and is always the case, why do people put PV on their roof now?...............I gaurantee you out of the hundreds and hundreds of systems I have install, not a single one has done it in the sole interest of the environment, not one.....all had it as a secondary incentive, but really it was just to save money

What happens at midnight though....nothing yet....till all the big nasty generators are switched off, Germany also has a far larger grid/load bank per Sq of land, this has alot to do with grid stability

Crating jobs, still comes at a loss, unless its a sustainable industry, government granted industries are not sustainable on their own merit....hence the government funding

The sun also shines on the coast, you know.

Pretty sure the sun also shines on the coast. Might be why the Sunshine Coast Council is putting in a solar power farm.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Pretty sure the sun also shines on the coast. Might be why the Sunshine Coast Council is putting in a solar power farm.

Sigh...

Its not that it isn't a great supplement, its not any good as base load generation

The world does not run on ideals

Originally Posted by rovercare

Y................................................. .............
Oh, Air conditioning peak load is primarily the cause of most issues and huge uptakes in power consumption, so do your bit on turn off the A/C

Not AC in my homes and I do not have solar panels because our electricity bill is of $250 per month for 9 month of the year and $300 for the 3 winter months. The cost of a solar system and the energy used to manufacturing it does not justify to have t in our case.
When we built our homes me designed them for passive heating during winter and cooling in summer including our 10 years in Qld.
Now in Kingston, Tasmania we bought a house with double insulation in the roof, insulation on the walls and an orientation were we have the sun heating the place from 9 to 4 in winter.
Planning is the way to go and be smart in how you use energy.