What constitutes a police pursuit?

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Originally Posted by Sitec

the cops have a very hard job, and are often provoked, but I think they do a great job.... If they have to chase someone, then so be it!

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As someone who has owned / driven modified vehicles for many years, I can't help but feel victimised, not protected when I see a officer of the law.
Meanwhile instances of vandalized property, vehicle break-ins and assaults go un-investigated. The priorities are back-to-front in my opinion. The continued shift of the law from unrelenting punishment of petty crimes and loss of focus on the more serious issues (often perpetrated by repeat offenders) leaves me speechless sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger

As someone who has owned / driven modified vehicles for many years, I can't help but feel victimised, not protected when I see a officer of the law.
Meanwhile instances of vandalized property, vehicle break-ins and assaults go un-investigated. The priorities are back-to-front in my opinion. The continued shift of the law from unrelenting punishment of petty crimes and loss of focus on the more serious issues (often perpetrated by repeat offenders) leaves me speechless sometimes.

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I suppose they go for easy targets. Like going to the Big Day Out with sniffer dogs, it must be like shooting fish in a barrel for our donut loving friends. The more difficult targets would take much more work, only to have judge let them straight back out, or legal aid say they were being victimised.

Jeff

:rocket:

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Originally Posted by Jeff

I suppose they go for easy targets. Like going to the Big Day Out with sniffer dogs, it must be like shooting fish in a barrel for our donut loving friends. The more difficult targets would take much more work, only to have judge let them straight back out, or legal aid say they were being victimised.

Jeff

:rocket:

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It makes the arrest rate look good.....

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Originally Posted by bee utey

Imagine now, there are innocent passengers aboard, someone's children, hostages maybe, or some of the stray bullets take out some innocent bystanders as the cops go beserk. If that's OK with you then I want to live on a different planet to you.

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Sorry but generally if you are in the car you are not totally innocent generally. So you are quite happy for these idiots to initiate a chase and kill or injure other innocent parties when they use their car as a weapon? A little contrary dont you think that the offender can kill or mame but the police cannot end the pursuit early. Or just get away with the offence they have committed?
How often in Australia have you seen a police pursuit of a vehicle containing hostages. I cannot even recall one. Of course every pursuit needs some reasoning and thought of the actions.
This is not about them injuring innocent bystanders just stopping the pursuit and the criminal causing it. It is obvious by your post that the offenders in your opinion are the victims.
The police should have other options to stop the pursuit quickly and avoid other events occurring. Part of that may be shooting tyres etc or if a serious offender the offender.
It amazes me the people that criticize the police that have a very difficult job, but would be the first to call them and want assistance when a crime is committed against them.
Comparing this to incident in the US is just ridiculous, shooting someone at close range when there is other options should not of course be condoned.

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Originally Posted by Jeff

I suppose they go for easy targets. Like going to the Big Day Out with sniffer dogs, it must be like shooting fish in a barrel for our donut loving friends. The more difficult targets would take much more work, only to have judge let them straight back out, or legal aid say they were being victimised.

Jeff

:rocket:

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I cannot believe you really believe that. The police have many duties including drugged out idiots at festivals.

No offence, but to anyone who thinks it is an option to shoot out a tyre during a high speed pursuit with a standard issue Glock .40 S&W and the average firearms training a police officer receives...not impossible to do, but you'd need a lot of luck. I'm working hard to stand (not drive) with two hands (not one), to hit a 20cent bull at 20 metres, and I practice (legally ;) ) about 10 times more than the average officer (so I've been told, by an average officer).

Hollywood has a lot to answer for...

Now given a S&W 686 .357magnum 6inch - see 'Dirty Harry / Clint, (and a stable platform :cool: ) you could quickly deflate most rotating tyres (at less than 50 metres away). But again, to do it whilst in a pursuit ... 'Tell em they're dreaming'. :D

Photo of the two rounds attached for comparison ;)

My 2c, (that long it'll be more like $2 but anyway..)

*-the regulations quoted are one state only, each state has different policies and regulations. some wildly different to others.

*- "get the ever present media choppers to follow the pursuit"
**-MMM and when they stop the car somewhere what then? Or if they have a prang and hurt/kill someone whilst being followed by the chopper is it the medias fault? (because if it were a police chopper you can bet your last dollar it would be the police's fault!) & who will pay the media for the attendance of these choppers?
**- how many media choppers flying about 8-10 hrs out of the capital cities? what about your chase theory then?
**- what would their response time be to 'take over the chase' at for example 1am? (rescue chopper takes over 1 hr to travel to where I am once its airbourne and its only 145k by air... so take that out to 800 or 1,000km -- what is the range of a chopper unfuelled?

*- shooting out the tyres is a dreamers folly, there was a test done here with a datto 180b in the 80's, it was chocked up and acc jammed to be travelling at about 60 (obviously wheel spinning and no contact with ground.) It was shot at a number of times using different then issued calibres, most were completely ineffective, and no control could be taken over the projectile off the tyre. You would need the exact angle to take the tyre safely out... no police dept in Aust that I am aware of recommends or condones tyre shooting at moving vehicle. (we dont just spray rounds out like some clint eastwood movie... each round carries lethal force, not something to be used lightly)

*-Shooting the engine block of a running car was equally as useless, it (same car) was shot multiple times (incl 12g solid slugs) and kept running until someone hit the dissy, but by then the weight of the huge amount of extra lead would likely have slowed it!

*- suggestions of lethal force, Maybe, (suprising as it may seem to some of you,) maybe some of us (most or even all is more like it) don't go to work just hoping we can squeeze off a few rounds and maybe even injure some scumbag or cash in his ticket for good! Maybe we'd prefer to just avoid lethal force unless it is the last resort...

It is something no one wants to do, I've written about this topic and my experience elsewhere here and I shan't be going over it again,suffice to say its not an experience anyone wants to live with.

*- suggestions that pinching drug takers at the big day out concert is like "shooting fish in a barrel" and "lazy" are incredibly short sighted.
**- its against the law. (note the bolded fullstop...it was intended)
**- if you go to a public place with illegal drugs nowdays, for what reason do you think that would be alright!? if you go to BDO with drugs, well, you're an idiot..they announce for weeks before that they'll be doing drug sweeps.... as I said..idiot!
**- how often nowdays do we hear the excuse in court "he didn't know what he was doing as he had been taking drugs" or "the dispute during the drug deal led to a stabbing/shooting/bashing/murder".. if they are caught maybe they'll get help and quit taking the stuff - we may save someones life with those drug sweeps.. either a "druggie" or some bystander who gets hurt by someone involved with drugs...
**- have you ever tried to revive someone who has gone into cardiac arrest due to drugs not being "as advertised" or their having a bad reaction? Its not fun, if you are lucky enough to keep them going until ambos arrive they are still likely to have permanent damage..
If not, (or even if they do live) you then have to knock on mr and mrs respectables door and tell them that little johnny or sheila is in fact in hospital or mortuary because theyve taken drugs... yeah thats fun for us too... maybe we see an advantage to stopping that before it gets to that stage.. remember in these smaller places, we know the people as we live and work in the community... that doesnt make it easier...for anyone.

**- "stop picking on innocent people/petty crimes and start picking on more serious stuff"
Sure! but
a)you'd be surprised how a minor thing can lead to those more serious matters so easily. More than once Ive stopped speeding or defectable vehicles and ended up locating large amounts of tablets or cannabis and even stolen or cut down firearms....

b) what evidence would you like me to use to get these so called Mr Bigs off the street? Its amazing how often people point to someone.."he's a dealer"
Cool, tell me what you know and I'm there... Ohh well I just think he is... or even, no Ive told you he is you work it out from there... cheers that's helpful!

I don't know if anyone has noticed but I don't rush about telling people how to fix cars, or do plumbing or even grow the lawn at our local oval...I may have some theories about this stuff but I don't have the training or experience to tell someone who is doing it competantly how they should do it, why does this not apply to policework? Police do two years training before they are a fully sworn officer... yet that is obviously wasted as everyone who has not done the training nor done the job seems to know what to do and how (don't worry about little things like the law and its restrictions) and obviously the Police don't know what they're doing.....

When you are running away from the idiot driving like a maniac or drugged out and going crazy, who are the people going towards them?? for what? fun?? Maybe reassess and see the view from another spot before you judge...

At the end of the day, Police are looking to stop Billy The Goose from hurting himself or anyone else and hopefully stop him from taking or damaging other peoples stuff....thats very basically the aim..

I could keep going here but I've had my little vent... If I've upset anyone, well sorry, but there you go..

cheers, I'm finished, go on, move on now, there is nothing to see here...
digger

PS,
and Jeff, "our donut loving friends??" seriously??
get a grip son, thats from the US where 'donut shops' are the local diners or coffee shops too..and how often do you spend the day without eating or having a drink whilst at work?. ..I havent seen anyone calling you Camel!.. but thats OK obviously you know enough Police well enough to make that judgement and generalisation....

(stretching on your theory though, that an occupation defines the person and their actions, then I suppose all carpenters should be either worshipped or crucified? ....sounding ISIS like at all?)

(please insert whatever icon is required for this post to be taken with a pinch of salt- Im not aiming to belittle, insult or offend anyone-- I'll put all that in a different post! :twisted)

Digger, if you shoot a swell as you type I'm trading in my balaclava right now!:D

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Originally Posted by Pedro_The_Swift

Digger, if you shoot a swell as you type I'm trading in my balaclava right now!:D

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Pedro,
I'm a firearms training and range officer amongst other things :)
keep the balaclava, but roll it up and use it as a beanie.

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Originally Posted by CraigE

Sorry but generally if you are in the car you are not totally innocent generally. So you are quite happy for these idiots to initiate a chase and kill or injure other innocent parties when they use their car as a weapon? A little contrary dont you think that the offender can kill or mame but the police cannot end the pursuit early. Or just get away with the offence they have committed?
How often in Australia have you seen a police pursuit of a vehicle containing hostages. I cannot even recall one. Of course every pursuit needs some reasoning and thought of the actions.
This is not about them injuring innocent bystanders just stopping the pursuit and the criminal causing it. It is obvious by your post that the offenders in your opinion are the victims.
The police should have other options to stop the pursuit quickly and avoid other events occurring. Part of that may be shooting tyres etc or if a serious offender the offender.
It amazes me the people that criticize the police that have a very difficult job, but would be the first to call them and want assistance when a crime is committed against them.
Comparing this to incident in the US is just ridiculous, shooting someone at close range when there is other options should not of course be condoned.

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All I can say is, WTF are you smoking. It is obvious by your post that you have no idea what I think.:mad:

BTW thanks Digger for your rational post, that's head and shoulders above this lot.