Thread: Increasing fines in the name of safety

Originally Posted by SlowRide

...I'm curious - has any study ever revealed that the more you fine a community the safer it becomes?

Probably not as such, but there are studies which show if you slow people down then road trauma and deaths are decreased.

The question then becomes - how do you slow people down? Fines are one means I suppose. If you think they are ineffective in doing that - what are the alternatives?

People would need to know how much the fines are for each offense for that to work. I personally feel that they try to hide the rules and costs of breaking them somewhat, then tell you that it's your responsibility to know them. I think it's a bit mushroom like.

A better fine would be day(s) in remedial training, or picking up litter. Rather than $$$

Originally Posted by Ferret

If you think they are ineffective in doing that - what are the alternatives?

How about community service - roadside and reserve clean ups and the like. The offender could be mandated for community service on dates X, Y or Z, then if they don't show then level them with a fine AND their community service requirement. If they show up but don't pull their weight then commit them with more service until their attitude corrects itself.

I think this would be far more effective a punishment as you'd have a recognised reference to correction beyond the inconvenience of a fine. For employers it would be humiliating and embarrassing, for employees you'd be eating into your annual leave and workplace credibility, and for the self-employed you'd lose the ability to earn a days wage. And if you're unemployed it'll force you to get active and keep off the bongs/goon for a day. And best of all - it'd be appreciated by the wider community.

Obviously room for fine-tuning, but I think the reliance on fines as a behavioural correction mechanism is flawed from the outset. It's nothing more than than legalised extortion - an inconvenient financial transaction. I'd suggest you'd be more likely to think (and remember) of consequences of your actions if it was linked to community service each and every time you fall foul of the law.

Money can make everything possible, like let drivers slow down

Originally Posted by SlowRide

and for the self-employed you'd lose the ability to earn a days wage. And if you're unemployed it'll force you to get active and keep off the bongs/goon for a day. .

So effectively for an unemployed person the "fine" is zero, whereas for the self employed person it could total into the thousands of dollars.

Seems fair...

Originally Posted by SlowRide

How about community service - roadside and reserve clean ups and the like. The offender could be mandated for community service on dates X, Y or Z, then if they don't show then level them with a fine AND their community service requirement. If they show up but don't pull their weight then commit them with more service until their attitude corrects itself...

I suspect it's a cost thing.

I don't know how many people are fined each year but I think hundreds of thousands would be a fair guess. Someone has to administer and supervise all those people if they are to community service - that probably is a net cost the state. Just easier, faster and less costly to slug em - net profit to the state.

The young bloke came home with a $300 fine a while back. As a poverty stricken uni student working a part time job as a waiter at slave rates he worked out how many shifts he had to work for nothing.

Years back the authorities realised that fines were not working so brought in double demerits at critical times but of course they then got greedy keeping double demerits in for longer and longer periods but then also increasing fines.

The aim should be to reduce accidents and the road toll not line the coffers - now if fines do that and line the coffers that is fine but there comes a point that increasing fines does nothing.

When I drive I have in my mind the conditions not the fine I might attract - I don't even know what they are.

What is needed are actions that reduce a bad event of happening before it is likely to happen not a penalty that is applied after the event and was not even a consideration before hand.

Garry