Death Of The Australian Motoring Industry

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Originally Posted by TerryO

Forty years ago everyone said Toyota and Honda cars were junk as well, that soon changed as it will with the Chinese made vehicles. I remember in the 80's when everyone laughed at Allan Bond for importing those heaps of rubbish Hyundai Korean cars. Who laughs at Hyundai now?

As for how can Land Rover survive in a high wage environment when Holden and Ford can't? Land Rover build very niche design luxury vehicles that at present are what enough people around the world want. If it came down to LR surviving on their cooking class Defender's for their financial survival then LR would be gone as well.

Everyone builds four door passenger cars of varying shapes and sizes so having a high wage environment in that market place just makes things even harder.

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You make a very good point about Hyundai,Great wall will improve as will most Chinese cars i am stating that at the minute there are not a great car.

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Originally Posted by TerryO

In general there is seldom just one reason for a industry failing, there is always a myriad of things that over time cause it.

But if its true that unskilled cleaners gets a union negotiated 80k salary per annum at Holden and the wage rates go much farther north as you get onto the production line, which at best is a semi skilled job, then that to adds to the downfall of the local industry. Why should a cleaner at Holden get 80k when cleaners elsewhere only get about 40k?

As I said chances are there is no one reason on its own for the failure of the industry but if Australians don't want to buy locally built cars then no matter how low the wages are or how high government support is or how high import tariffs are then the industry is stuffed.

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GMH said $55k average for a production worker across plant?
Ohhh you "swallowed" a Murdoch line of $80k for cleaners. Do us all a favour look up the link to the EBA and post it with page number like I did last time.;)
Ohh here you go I know you would rather believe a headline than a legal document. And its from a Murdoch web site!:o Now why would they put up a headline like $80k cleaners when they have a copy of the EBA on their own files that shows it is false?
[ame]http://resources.news.com.au/files/2013/12/11/1226780/877147-aus-news-file-holden-eba-2011.pdf[/ame]
Page 45: pay goes from $45,000 to $67,000 for a person who is occasionally(n33 job description) filling in for the section manager. Now if you did a LOT of overtime you could double your wage, but the only way to be able to do that is have the extra shifts available and that requires 2 things, production (which is not there as they are shutting because not selling enough) or vacancies either through sickies which under their EBA all bar 2 require a doc cert. OR through the company not filling all vacancies. This is common in larger companies and means there is always a level of overtime available and you would call them slack if they didn't do it.


Heres an interesting article, basically we subsidised by around $18 per person the aussie car industry. The germans pay $96 a person and the good old USA $256.
Is supporting the car industry so expensive, compared to our heavily subsidised lives?

Wow that makes for very interesting reading,$18 per person is a very small price to pay to have kept all those people employed and their families fed.And yet we pay so much more to keep those mongrel banks going then cop stupid fees in return.

Actually Frantic I don't read Murdoch papers and I actually said 'if its true' then that would add dramatically to build costs of local cars.

I was actually told this by a gentleman who runs a business in Adelaide that provides a number of services to GMH and has done for a long time, so from what your telling me he also must have no idea either, which is possible I guess.

Well now we aren't subsidising the car makers we should stop the rest.

Starting with the mining industry:
1. They can start paying full price for fuel like the rest of us.
2. Remote area income tax subsidies should be stopped.

Perhaps we should stop pensions and the like as well.

Remember if people don't earn good money they have nothing to spend.
If they don't spend the economy goes into recession.

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Originally Posted by disco man

If they are so good why do they rate down the bottom in 4wd magazine tests? We had a trial great wall at the mine site i work at in the exploration department and it lasted 3 months the electrics don't like dust the suspention can't cope with rutted roads and the cooling system can't cop long periods in low range in 40 degree plus heat.Interior trim is filled with cheap rubbish plastics that broke.

Other than that they are a great car.

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So we rate cars on magazine tests,sorry,trying not to laugh.Since when has Toyota suspension coped with rutted tracks,or not had cooling issue's,or had electrics that didn't leave you stranded and have you seen the plastic in the LC?,it's made from recycled milk bottles. Pat

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Originally Posted by disco man

Would you say the Government opening the flood gates had nothing to do with it?Would you also say the products that replaced the locals are a better product?

Land Rover is not a stand alone product and also enjoys massive backing,if you removed Jaguar and Tata's backing would they be able to go it alone?

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You might try reading the News on this forum,LR borrowed huge amounts of money from the British taxpayer,not from Tata,that money was used to hire british workers to supply material and labour to build their new factories,LR created thousands of jobs and all the money stayed in the economy,thats before any vehicles were sold,LR not only thinks ahead but is smart about it. Pat

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Originally Posted by chuck

Well now we aren't subsidising the car makers we should stop the rest.

Starting with the mining industry:
1. They can start paying full price for fuel like the rest of us.
2. Remote area income tax subsidies should be stopped.

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From what I have read the mining industry get a rebate on the portion of the fuel tax that is meant to go towards public road up keep.

Reason they don't wear out public roads because their machinery doesn't drive on public roads and that being the case then that sounds reasonable to me. The Greens rave on about the mining industry getting subsidised fuel when that is not actually true, not once have I heard them admit why the mining industry gets fuel rebates which would shoot down their argument if it was widely known I reckon.

I would guess that is the same for those in the maritime related industries that use diesel in boats. ... Is it?

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Originally Posted by PAT303

So we rate cars on magazine tests,sorry,trying not to laugh.Since when has Toyota suspension coped with rutted tracks,or not had cooling issue's,or had electrics that didn't leave you stranded and have you seen the plastic in the LC?,it's made from recycled milk bottles. Pat

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Ok fair enough,do you think magazine tests have no relevance at all and are a complete waste of time and prove nothing?.I get your point about Toyota but the Toyota's used by exploration even the new ones cope a lot better.

And yes the Land Bruiser interior is woeful and no better than a Proton Jumbuck.

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Originally Posted by TerryO

Forty years ago everyone said Toyota and Honda cars were junk as well, that soon changed as it will with the Chinese made vehicles. I remember in the 80's when everyone laughed at Allan Bond for importing those heaps of rubbish Hyundai Korean cars. Who laughs at Hyundai now?

As for how can Land Rover survive in a high wage environment when Holden and Ford can't? Land Rover build very niche design luxury vehicles that at present are what enough people around the world want. If it came down to LR surviving on their cooking class Defender's for their financial survival then LR would be gone as well.

Everyone builds four door passenger cars of varying shapes and sizes so having a high wage environment in that market place just makes things even harder.

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Land Rover doesn't just make defenders,it makes a whole range of vehicles so your argument doesn't stand up,again GMH and Ford could have made the same range of vehicles but no,instead they make 6 and 8 cylinder petrol sedans no one wants. Pat