Land Rover vs Ford Transit

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31st October 2014, 01:09 AM
isuzurover

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hay Ewe

any chance this thread might get back on topic instead of another slanging match?

Would some body be able to post up some power / torque graphs, and include the TD5 and maybe petrol 3.5 / 3.9 V8 as well?

thanks, interesting topic otherwise

Well I will be driving this around the bush all day tomorrow:

Quote:

Maximum power: Single turbo: 151 kW (202 hp) @ 3400 rpm;[1] Twin turbo: 195 kW (261 hp) at 3400 rpm[2]
Maximum torque: Single turbo: 430 N·m (317 lb·ft) @ 1200-3200 rpm;[1] Twin turbo: 650 N·m (479 lb·ft) @ 1600-2600 rpm[2]

In reality maximum torque doesn't seem to arrive until 1800 rpm though.

Reliable power/torque curves for stock engines are not usually published by the manufacturers and curves produced by aftermarket engine tuners should be taken with a grain of salt. However the approximate specs are easy to get hold of.

Puma engine family

Quote:

2.2

In 2005, Ford introduced the Duratorq ZSD-422, a 2.2 L (2184 cc)

Applications:

Ford Transit
2005–2007 Ford Mondeo 2.2 TDCi 155, 155 PS (153 hp/114 kW) and 262 lb·ft (355N·m)
2005–2009 Jaguar X-Type
2011- Land Rover Defender
2011- Ford Ranger T6 & Mazda BT-50 2.2 TDCi 110 kW & 375Nm

2.4

The 2,402 cc (2.402 L; 146.6 cu in) Duratorq ZSD-424 is a turbocharged and intercooled Diesel. Output is 75 PS (55 kW; 74 hp) to 137 PS (101 kW; 135 hp) and 185 N·m (136 lb·ft) to 285 N·m (210 lb·ft).

Applications:

Ford Transit
2002-2006 LDV Convoy
2002 London Taxi TXII
2007-2011 Land Rover Defender

3.2 (Ford Ranger)

It is an I5 engine used in the Ford Transit and the Ford Ranger. The engine is rated 200 PS (150 kW; 200 hp) and 470 N·m (350 lb·ft).

TD5

Quote:

Power: 122 hp (91 kW) @ 4,850 rpm (versions with manual transmission)
136 hp (101 kW) @ 5,000 rpm (versions with automatic transmission)
Torque: 221 lbf·ft (300 N·m) @ 1,950 rpm

Last of the rover v8s

Quote:

Production of the 4.0 ended in 2003. The final version of the engine, used in the 2003 Land Rover Discovery, produced 188 hp (140 kW) at 4,750 rpm and 250 lb·ft (340 N·m) at 2,600 rpm.
31st October 2014, 05:44 AM
jimr1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hay Ewe

any chance this thread might get back on topic instead of another slanging match?

Would some body be able to post up some power / torque graphs, and include the TD5 and maybe petrol 3.5 / 3.9 V8 as well?

thanks, interesting topic otherwise

I put this question up because , the Duratek 2.4 and 2.2 for both Land Rover and Transit are made in the same factory , also they are made for the same EU regs . or wherever there sold . I wasn't trying to get an argument going , I was just wondering why they both are the same engines , but have different outputs . Lots of Transits have very hard lives , just look at Australia Post . Many other Transits are loaded up to the hilt , and do high Kms . So these engines can cope . Many Defender owners use there trucks to tow , I also know they can to tow heavy loads , never been sure about towing 3.5 tons around Australia , only joking , but if you are towing something with a bit of weight , a bit extra power on tap is always welcome !!..Jim..
31st October 2014, 05:51 AM
AndyG

MyVW Passat, had two engine output options, 125 and100 from memory. Caused by different injector options I think.

So to truely know I suppose you would need the parts catalogues side by side, and more specs like compression ratio etc.

What it does mean, plenty of head room for performance mods, :) ignoring the driveline of course.
31st October 2014, 06:09 AM
Dougal

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyG

MyVW Passat, had two engine output options, 125 and100 from memory. Caused by different injector options I think.

So to truely know I suppose you would need the parts catalogues side by side, and more specs like compression ratio etc.

What it does mean, plenty of head room for performance mods, :) ignoring the driveline of course.

The difference between 100 and 125kw VAG tdi's is essentially boost pressure and turbocharger spec. Other items like injectors also change to optimise those parts for the different output.

With ECU control you can literally shape the torque and power curves of any engine to whatever you want. Limited only by the physical abilities of the hardware (turbos and fuel delivery etc).

Marketing is always a huge force in power/torque figures. It is bad form to have lower price vehicles outperforming the flagships.
31st October 2014, 07:10 AM
frantic

One power figure we missed was the NAS D2 V8 4.6 made to 2004, it put out around 165kw and about 420 nm, this is with the same gearbox and drivetrain as the 2003 on defernder. Same engine as the p38 hse.
The point is your drivetrain in either a 5 spd or newer 6 spd can take a fair bit more power.
The cv joints and rear p38 axle on the other hand have developed a bad reputation with stock power off road, along with prop on lifted pumas. These are all points to consider strengthening depending upon your planned use.
The p38 would probably be fine for towing with more power but has got a bad reputation for snapping off road.
31st October 2014, 08:13 AM
AndyG

Are the P38's snapping associated with Locking Diffs, or anytime, anyhow ?
31st October 2014, 08:39 AM
Dougal

Quote:

Originally Posted by frantic

One power figure we missed was the NAS D2 V8 4.6 made to 2004, it put out around 165kw and about 420 nm, this is with the same gearbox and drivetrain as the 2003 on defernder. Same engine as the p38 hse.
The point is your drivetrain in either a 5 spd or newer 6 spd can take a fair bit more power.
The cv joints and rear p38 axle on the other hand have developed a bad reputation with stock power off road, along with prop on lifted pumas. These are all points to consider strengthening depending upon your planned use.
The p38 would probably be fine for towing with more power but has got a bad reputation for snapping off road.

I've got an original P38 brochure here. The 4.6 was only available with automatic, the ZF HP24 which is a tougher version of the HP22 used in everything else.

Information on the 6sp defender box seems elusive.
31st October 2014, 10:34 AM
AndyG

6 speed from the Ford Mustang, or so i read once, which would make it fairly strong
31st October 2014, 03:10 PM
Dougal

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyG

6 speed from the Ford Mustang, or so i read once, which would make it fairly strong

Different box made in a different location apparently.
31st October 2014, 05:32 PM
Dougal

Quote:

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Well I will be driving this around the bush all day tomorrow:

In reality maximum torque doesn't seem to arrive until 1800 rpm though.

Reliable power/torque curves for stock engines are not usually published by the manufacturers and curves produced by aftermarket engine tuners should be taken with a grain of salt. However the approximate specs are easy to get hold of.

Puma engine family

TD5

Last of the rover v8s

Another useful measure is "clutch engagement torque". A Cummins 6BT is apparently 300-350Nm at 800rpm: EQB 180-20 Engine(BOSCH VE Pump) for Vehicle---Cummins Wholesaler|DCEC|CCEC|Cummins Engine|Genuine Cummins Parts|China

It could be as simple as ~60Nm torque per litre of displacement.

Peak torque for production diesels without boost is ~65-75Nm/litre. Boost multiplies that by the air density acheived.

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