Thread: The Strain On Defence Force Families.

The issue is real as the Servicemen and Women, current serving and Ex are without a voice. The conditions of service won in the years that all families had recent first hand experience have been eroded with the memories. Housing loans, Super, removals, travel, and specialist pay. Then the pensions are not indexed like all others and DVA cut their services.

The effects of cuts are enduring, after 22 years service with 14 moves, we didn't complain but in that time conditions of service were eroded and as an Advocate helping others that served with me it's sad to see these people not looked after.

There is no other profession that offers so much and takes so much. It's not possible to describe a day on the "2 way range" to any one that hasn't experienced it.

They deserve to be looked after fairly as they are not represented. It's too easy to target them. Don't cut conditions but weapons and equipment that can be bought quickly next time we send our best to serve in someone else's War.

I asked and saw some ordinary people do extraordinary things on active service and now to see them not looked after as promised is saddening and a blemish on our National Fabric. We wouldn't do it to our sports "Heroes" that are so relished.

Enough from me. If ya haven't seen you shouldn't say. Just monkey talk.

As an observer, it would seem our Defense people have been through the grinder for the last 13 years at least operationally, the last thing they need is being kicked in the nuts when they get home.

Or is the Defense force fundamentally under sized for the tasks it is being given, certainly the spend is at an all time low.

Originally Posted by nugge t

garrycol, then isn't the Navy failing in how they train and supervise the middle managers?

Its called human nature - same issue in all walks of life. If people have unrealistic deadlines or tasking they will do whatever is needed to deliver - same applies in all industries - see all the media attention over the past few years to unrealistic deadlines in the trucking industry.

A Can Do attitude is rewarded where a Can Not Do attitude means you will not be in that position for long.

But isn't it what separates good companies from poorer performing companies. I am still interested in how promotion is achieved.


I am also trying to understand more about deployment.

As far as I can see the ADF has about 58,000 people. How many are deployed in war zones at any one time currently?

I want to comment,

I'm not allowed t, my opinion might upset someone who out ranks me or worse some civillian.

Originally Posted by Brad110

The issue is real as the Servicemen and Women, current serving and Ex are without a voice. The conditions of service won in the years that all families had recent first hand experience have been eroded with the memories. Housing loans, Super, removals, travel, and specialist pay. Then the pensions are not indexed like all others and DVA cut their services.

The effects of cuts are enduring, after 22 years service with 14 moves, we didn't complain but in that time conditions of service were eroded and as an Advocate helping others that served with me it's sad to see these people not looked after.

There is no other profession that offers so much and takes so much. It's not possible to describe a day on the "2 way range" to any one that hasn't experienced it.

They deserve to be looked after fairly as they are not represented. It's too easy to target them. Don't cut conditions but weapons and equipment that can be bought quickly next time we send our best to serve in someone else's War.

I asked and saw some ordinary people do extraordinary things on active service and now to see them not looked after as promised is saddening and a blemish on our National Fabric. We wouldn't do it to our sports "Heroes" that are so relished.

Enough from me. If ya haven't seen you shouldn't say. Just monkey talk.

Spot on, and thanks for being an advocate. You're blood's worth bottling. Only those in the know, know how difficult the job is. Bob

Some more interesting facts, Bob

DefenceRecords Being Destroyed And Kept Secret:

(TheSydney Morning Herald ? 8th November.)

Sensitive Department of Defence documents are beingregularly destroyed by defence bureaucrats, with erased files including abusescandals at Duntroon, "chemical and biological warfare", and"treatment of Indonesians captured in Malaysia (in 1964-65)". Historians warn a regime that allows documentsto be destroyed and fails to make them easily available toresearchers threatens to cover up important activities by Defence that shouldbe revealedwhen documents are opened to the public after 27 years.


Fairfax Media can reveal only about 0.2 per cent ofsurviving Defence records for 1957 to 1987 are listed on the National Archives' electronic database, and even fewer are publicly"open", effectively shielding the vast bulk of files from publicscrutiny. Behind this wall of secrecy,many of the most politically sensitive have been destroyed.


By obtaining and searching the original card indexes,Fairfax Media has established a list of documents that no longer exist,covering some of Australia's most controversial defence activities. Destroyed files include:

• A file on a 1969 abuse scandal at the Royal MilitaryCollege at Duntroon called "alleged ill treatment of juniors atRMC" and a 1983 file on complaints about unlawful punishments in the army.
• Defence files on medical reports from Australia's TaskForce in Vietnam from 1969 to 1971 - a period when troops were aerially sprayedwith Agent Orange and "highly toxic" insecticides.
• AVietnam war-era file titled "Insecticides working party, minutes andcorrespondence".
• Fileson the highly controversial purchase of the F-111 from the United States.
• Fileson the divisive establishment of US Defence installations in Australia.
• A file on "treatment of Indonesians captured inMalaysia" [during Confrontation in 1964-65] and a file on the treatmentof Vietnamese in the Vietnam War.
• AVietnam era file on "chemical and biological warfare".
  When these files were requested based on the cardindexes, Defence replied through the Archives that "Unfortunately, theagency have responded that these records were destroyed". ChristopherWaters, associate professor in history atDeakin University, says Australia's Defence Department has a far worse accessrecord than that of Britain: "Defence's destruction of such key filesis a major concern to historians of Australian foreign and defencepolicy, especially on Cold War conflicts," Dr Waters said.
  "In theUnited Kingdom the records of the defence departments are one of the majorsources for historians on a whole range of importantevents and issues ... By contrast in Australia the records of the Department ofDefence, especially from 1958 onwards, which should be available toresearchers, are not, except for a very small percentage... which has left a big gap in our understanding of Australia's defencehistory since the late 1950s."
  A Defence spokesman said that Defence records are kept inaccordance with schedules approved by the National Archives, which its staffare directed to follow. The Archives'spokesperson said it still held the other 99.7 per cent of files to be"available for public access".
  
  The spokesperson did not explain how thepublic could identify and request them.

Originally Posted by nugge t

sorry bob10 I took your earlier comment as all ills are the responsibility of this government.


This reference and other from weakestlink are what made it political in a non political area.


I simply make the point that people enter the ADF knowing the life style and the risk. If they don't like the life style or the pay rate, they can leave and as others have pointed out, earn more money.

We very rarely know what we are getting in to when we sign up.

Will

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