Thread: The Strain On Defence Force Families.

Originally Posted by Greatsouthernland

Interesting stuff...

I thought only Jacqui Lambie was this passionate, but Bob you are giving her a nudge

I'm not sure the ADF needs or has asked either of you for an opinion...

Surely the big man - His Excellency General the Honourable Sir Peter Cosgrove AK MC (Retd) - is testament to the respect we bestow upon our service men and women.

The 'discussion' (if it were more tolerant) about pay and pay-rises, only serves to detract from the majority of satisfied service personnel, and is (when without statistical reference for comparison) nothing short of scandalous, in my opinion.

ADF personnel are big enough to look after themselves, as some posts have demonstrated there are those 'getting on with' their military careers to their satisfaction and that of their families.

Out of respect to those who have served, those that are, and their families, surely this thread is getting out of order?? (from an ex-reservist )

In this case they can not look after them selves they can not make public statements nor take industrial action if they thought it was appropriate they rely on the politicians and the CDF to represent their interests. None of the defence force organisation are able to appeal the tribunals decisions and to my knowledge none support the decision recently made

PS: As an ex-servie I have a great deal of respect for current members, asking for a better deal or to keep what they already have is not IMHO disrespectful but hopefully supporting them. But yes lets also respect other opinions that they seem to have it good.

Originally Posted by THE BOOGER

In this case they can not look after them selves they can not make public statements nor take industrial action if they thought it was appropriate they rely on the politicians and the CDF to represent their interests....

...but for this - ADSO engages directly with the Government and political parties to achieve its aims. By necessity it operates within the political arena on an issues basis.

The Alliance of Defence Service Organisations (ADSO) Introduction

ADSO was formally constituted in July of 2010. It was formed as result of the constituent organisations desire to work in a more cooperative and coordinated manner. The membership of the Alliance comprises the Defence Force Welfare Association (DFWA), the Naval Association of Australia (NAA), the RAAF Association (RAAFA), The Royal Australian Regiment Corporation (RARC) and Australian Special Air Services Association (ASASA). Subsequently, the Australian Peacekeepers and Peacemakers Veterans Association (APPVA), the Vietnam Veterans Association of Australia (VVAA) and the Australian Federation of Totally and Permanently Incapacitated Ex Servicemen and Women Ltd (TPI Fed) became part of the Alliance.

The Alliance represents a significant number (over three million) members of Australia's Defence Family on national advocacy and representative matters to the Australian Federal Parliament and political parties.

The Alliance objective is to provide a stronger voice on issues impacting the conditions and wellbeing of currently serving and former members of the Australian Defence Force.

Its major functions are to:
1. Improve communication, cooperation and collaboration between member organisations;
2. Gain mutual advantage from the differing of expertise of each member organisation;
3. Ensure for each issue being pursued, the appropriate organisation is identified as the "lead organisation" for coordination of the actions undertaken by the Alliance; and
4. Help spread the workload and ensure the resources of the Alliance members are used to produce the most effective result.

Yes and from their web site

ADF members rely on the Government for fair and equitable treatment in their service conditions in a way that is unique within the Australian community. ADSO is firmly of the opinion that this expectation is not being matched by government policies and decisions. By their continued neglect of their responsibilities, successive governments have been placing an unfair burden on former ADF members to bear the consequences of their policy decisions in a way not imposed on other sections of the Australian community.

And ADSO can not appeal the tribunals descions AFAIK. And if you read what they have to say about the current wage deal they are not happy read, the fair go section of their website

Originally Posted by THE BOOGER

But yes lets also respect other opinions that they seem to have it good.

I don't think anyone is saying that necessarily. People have been asking for details so they can make their minds up. There has been lots of emotion but it has taken 7 pages for the facts to start trickling out.

And before anyone pre judges me. My father and grandfathers served. One grandfather was a ww2 raf radio operator.

Originally Posted by THE BOOGER

And ADSO can not appeal the tribunals descions AFAIK.

The ADSO can advocate but not mandate. Uniform members cannot go public so tend to rely on retired members of the ADSO to be the public face.

Only the CDF, the Secretary and the Government can appeal the tribunal decision and non intend to at this stage.

Even if Senator Lambie can change the Governments mind on the pay deal - the most that can be done if for them to appeal the decision. The PM cannot just decide to change the remuneration as it is set by the DFRT.

Garry

I try not to prejudge anybody I usually get it wrong anyway You probably know then that servicemen and women think a bit differently to your average people. The vast majority will do the job no matter what the pay is but that is no reason for the Govt (any Govt) to take advantage of them. The pay deal is not really a deal if only one side gets a say in what it is

Yes but if the govt appealed and said they would accept say a 2.5% increase is there anybody to oppose it?

Originally Posted by bob10

...We sea going sailors called those part timers, depot stauntions. All in good fun , of course. If you didn't go to sea for at least 6 to 9 months a year, you weren't a sailor. But, that's why we joined up, wasn't it? Bob

This attitude (even though you may say is in 'good fun') undermines the very nature of Australia's Defence Force, it is supported by Reservists or 'part timers' as you may put it. Someone has to staff the offices on land 'Headquarters', someone has to be in 'supply', 'Legal', 'maintenance' and a range of roles that 'support' those on the front line or 'deployed'.

This sort of badgering by full-timers when I was a reservist, did nothing to encourage myself or others to remain active. Disappointing in my opinion as the ADF has and needs a diverse range of skilled professionals to maintain it's high standard, and a significant proportion of these are in the reserves, including medicos and elite infantry. Australia is not alone in this system and it is proven to maintain a diverse blend between military and civilian that allows for rapid expansion of the full-time forces if needed, hence the term 'ready-reserves'.

This attitude to 'who does what' and 'who serves where for how long' does nothing but distract from the main topic of 'general' pay and conditions. Furthermore it is an element of pommy whinging that the majority of Australian Defence professionals are thankfully in a class above.

As you were...