Thread: advantages of a 110 over a rover or disco

Originally Posted by AndyG

Toyota and Customer Service, you made my coffee go down the wrong way
150 LC in the fleet, 30 purchases a year, and a potential 50 trucks, 170 km from the dealer. Not one visit in 10 years.

We buy spares off shore, because they either don't answer the phone, fax or email or have obscure spares like shockies and windscreens actually in stock.
We buy Volvo & not Hino because we have a choice. (And import everything, the trucks and the spares.

Customer Service Too successful became too arrogant

Yup, they did become too arrogant...and too expensive. Their service in remote areas has become complacent too. ...That's why I suggest the market is now wide open!

Originally Posted by MrLandy

Well now you're just contradicting yourself gusthedog! It can't be both a shrinking market and the biggest long range heavy duty 4WD market in the first world.

No I don't think I did. We have long distances to cover so we have a number of Australian manufacturers making bigger fuel tanks. You just don't get that in other places round the world. That is our own domestic market. However there is a shrinking market globally for heavy duty 4wds. My point was Australia is too small in population to affect global trends of vehicle sales and therefore type of vehicle. LR couldnt give a **** what Aussies want. We have too few people to affect the marketing decisions of a global company. However we do have enough people to have domestic production of long range tanks be feasible for local manufacturers. I reckon that most of them will be feeling the global trends too though. Make sense?

Originally Posted by gusthedog

No I don't think I did. We have long distances to cover so we have a number of Australian manufacturers making bigger fuel tanks. You just don't get that in other places round the world. That is our own domestic market. However there is a shrinking market globally for heavy duty 4wds. My point was Australia is too small in population to affect global trends of vehicle sales and therefore type of vehicle. LR couldnt give a **** what Aussies want. We have too few people to affect the marketing decisions of a global company. However we do have enough people to have domestic production of long range tanks be feasible for local manufacturers. I reckon that most of them will be feeling the global trends too though. Make sense?

Thanks GTD, I take your point. Not convinced that they don't give a **** though...Cheers,

I think Pricey's point was that while there is a market here for 'industrial' style vehicles (LC79, Defender, etc) there are a few points to consider:
a) There is an existing market leader (Toyota) to compete with. Yes, Toyota customer care can be as bad or worse as Land Rovers, but the fact is they're still a long way ahead. Land Rover would not only have to build something suitable for the environment, they'd also have to set up the infrastructure to maintain them in remote areas while competing with Toyota. Not economically viable for the number of units they'd sell.
b) I'm sure Land Rover cares about what Australians are buying, assuming they're buying the cars that make them money! They don't give a **** about Australians who want a 'new' Defender type vehicle because it competes with the D4, etc for off-road use and there's not that big a market. The Land Rover community in Australia, while sizable, is tiny really.

Originally Posted by gusthedog

I might be wrong with a few of my figures here but LR sell around 500,000 vehicles a year. In their best years only 20,000 defenders were sold world wide. What do you think their biggest selling model is? It's the freelander. Not the hardcore off road enthusiast 4wd but a soft roader. Because that's where the $ are. Why put any R&D or new models into a shrinking segment? They're not rushing out with a new defender because that's not where the money's at. It's in soft roader's and luxo-barges. How many D4's ever see dirt worldwide?

I agree it's **** but money pays. They can still sell their off road cred of old without actually having a robust off road model for years into the future. So why bother?

Accordingto LROI July issue the Discovery Sport sold 700 more vehicles in April than the Freelander did in April last year. Defender sales were up 23% on last year. Top selling Landy was the Evoque.

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Originally Posted by Disco Muppet

I think Pricey's point was that while there is a market here for 'industrial' style vehicles (LC79, Defender, etc) there are a few points to consider:
a) There is an existing market leader (Toyota) to compete with. Yes, Toyota customer care can be as bad or worse as Land Rovers, but the fact is they're still a long way ahead. Land Rover would not only have to build something suitable for the environment, they'd also have to set up the infrastructure to maintain them in remote areas while competing with Toyota. Not economically viable for the number of units they'd sell.
b) I'm sure Land Rover cares about what Australians are buying, assuming they're buying the cars that make them money! They don't give a **** about Australians who want a 'new' Defender type vehicle because it competes with the D4, etc for off-road use and there's not that big a market. The Land Rover community in Australia, while sizable, is tiny really.

Sure DM, I hear you and agree to a point...but my disappointment in Land Rover re Defender is that,

a) Toyota took that market share from Land Rover in the 80's in the first place, then Land Rover effectively gave up on the bush and closed most of their service agents across Australia. There's no reason why a re designed Defender can't take back the massive mining, agriculture, military markets worldwide...IF they get the new defender right and IF they wanted to, especially as Toyota is facing the same situation with 70 series. No better time in my opinion, but I agree Land Rover most likely won't because their market is now in luxury, predominantly urban centric vehicles. ...which is what I've been saying all along.

b) I think there actually is that big a market, but it needs to be taken back from Toyota and now Mercedes for defence (worldwide, not just Australia). Very interesting the talk about Magna Steyer in this context of course.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Accordingto LROI July issue the Discovery Sport sold 700 more vehicles in April than the Freelander did in April last year. Defender sales wre up 23% on last year. Top selling Landy was the EVoque.

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Told you my figures were ****. Whoops! anyway my point about soft roaders hogging the $ is still true

We live in an era where everything is made with an expiry date. Product quality is compromised for a sooner rather than later upgrade.
What this means is that a small niche of die hard 4wd enthusiasts are not a voice to be reckoned with. LR as well as other brands can make more money on targeting the 4wd luxury market and get a return sale/upgrade at a faster rate. It's a case of lower margin with greater volume producing bigger profits. At the end if the day the company's number one concern is to be profitable.
The defender has been on death row for a while and now it's time has finally come. Sad! LR will forever have its place in the history books, it's future lies in mom and dad buyers who are willing to pay for a luxury badge rather than a pedigree tough vehicle.

That's why I consider myself lucky, I bought "Barry" at just the right time. I'm doing everything I can to ensure that I have this vehicle for ever and hopefully outlasts my need for it. I was one of the lucky ones who drove a LR defender, so are a lot of you


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