Thread: Autonomous Vehicles

As a piece of technology humans are eons ahead of current human made technology. Humans have autonomous self repair, are able to reprogram themselves, etc.

Originally Posted by rammypluge

By the time you have fully replaced all of the functions of the driver, you have a very complex system that is expensive to set up, expensive to run, less reliable, etc, than the driver. Humans have hundreds of thousands or millions of years of evolution behind them. They are extremely amazing machines regardless of where they sit on the human IQ range.

Humans take years to train and decades to become mature and safe and each driver needs expensive amounts of of individual training. And even with all of that there are still loads of crap drivers on the road every day. Then they get sick, get angry, get old etc. They also often have no clue as to why you should check the oil, water or tyres once a week and eventually grind expensively to a complete halt. Then professional drivers want to be paid well enough to have a meaningful life. No wonder that companies are hanging out to sack all their drivers like the big miners already have.

Originally Posted by rammypluge

By the time you have fully replaced all of the functions of the driver, you have a very complex system that is expensive to set up, expensive to run, less reliable, etc, than the driver. Humans have hundreds of thousands or millions of years of evolution behind them. They are extremely amazing machines regardless of where they sit on the human IQ range.

I suppose by then if the now redundant drivers want to go out on the roads , under their control , they will only have a bike as an option . Perhaps mandatory Lycra and riding in groups required so that the machines recognise them ?

Originally Posted by bee utey

Humans take years to train and decades to become mature and safe and each driver needs expensive amounts of of individual training. And even with all of that there are still loads of crap drivers on the road every day. Then they get sick, get angry, get old etc. They also often have no clue as to why you should check the oil, water or tyres once a week and eventually grind expensively to a complete halt. Then professional drivers want to be paid well enough to have a meaningful life. No wonder that companies are hanging out to sack all their drivers like the big miners already have.

Most transport companies dont train their drivers, at all.

Most transport companies dont repair their trucks until they break down. So many drivers stop bothering to hit their head against a brick wall.

Most expect too much of their drivers, creating a myriad of conflicts and issues.

Most drivers are more professional than their managers, but are held back by their managers.

Most of the issues in the transport sector are caused by untrained managers failing to take responsibility for the workforce and the problems they create.

Originally Posted by rammypluge

Most transport companies dont train their drivers, at all.

Most transport companies dont repair their trucks until they break down. So many drivers stop bothering to hit their head against a brick wall.

Most expect too much of their drivers, creating a myriad of conflicts and issues.

Most drivers are more professional than their managers, but are held back by their managers.

Most of the issues in the transport sector are caused by untrained managers failing to take responsibility for the workforce and the problems they create.

This is so true across so many industries. Managers without real world skills making financial and operational decisions without the specific expertise of those actually doing the work on the ground. From politics at all levels to private corporations, the ego of the hierarchy ignores the knowledge in the team. Growth Capitalist cost cutting is the biggest problem in terms of productivity and innovation.

I dont work in the car industry but I’d be willing to bet that many great ideas and very grounded knowledge has been dismissed by senior managers with dollar signs in their eyes.

Many wont concur, but my view of successful production of anything is collaborative break even, ensuring the highest quality people and components are used. Break even includes R&D and handmade quality as well as automation.

profiteering is the Bain of the majority’s existence. Why do we keep voting for the hierarchy?

Autonomous vehicles for the masses is a long way off and not necessarily a good idea anyway. There will no doubt be a hierarchy in terms of where you can and can’t go, mega techbased road tolls and ‘selective’ intelligence levels at a price.

Originally Posted by rammypluge

The population problem is coming from developing countries. As developing countries become developed birth rates go down to sustainable levels. The best strategies are to ensure they develop, to have discussions about overpopulation, and to accelerate our space programs.

But what is ‘sustainable’ anyway? Any growth will eventually lead to there being too many people. Is zero growth the only way to go or do we do what they did on ‘Logan’s Run’?

Originally Posted by rammypluge

Most transport companies dont train their drivers, at all.

Most transport companies dont repair their trucks until they break down. So many drivers stop bothering to hit their head against a brick wall.

Most expect too much of their drivers, creating a myriad of conflicts and issues.

Most drivers are more professional than their managers, but are held back by their managers.

Most of the issues in the transport sector are caused by untrained managers failing to take responsibility for the workforce and the problems they create.

A small trucking company I know of works on road construction in Brisbane, and has real trouble getting truck drivers who don't wreck their trucks. Things like no mechanical sympathy, turning off dash cams to hide their bad driving etc, makes them very expensive to employ. So they employ an older bloke from far away in SA who has marginal health and modest experience in large trucks, simply because he's sane and careful.

The cut a long story short, to imagine there is a large pool of excellent but under appreciated truck drivers out there is simply ludicrous. The number of good, sane drivers is well balanced by the bad, nutso drivers out in the wild. These are the drivers that autonomous trucks will be first to replace. The good ones will hang on until retirement, knowing that they have to allow a company to profit from their work or they're out on their collective ears.

Originally Posted by bee utey

A small trucking company I know of works on road construction in Brisbane, and has real trouble getting truck drivers who don't wreck their trucks. Things like no mechanical sympathy, turning off dash cams to hide their bad driving etc, makes them very expensive to employ. So they employ an older bloke from far away in SA who has marginal health and modest experience in large trucks, simply because he's sane and careful.

The cut a long story short, to imagine there is a large pool of excellent but under appreciated truck drivers out there is simply ludicrous. The number of good, sane drivers is well balanced by the bad, nutso drivers out in the wild. These are the drivers that autonomous trucks will be first to replace. The good ones will hang on until retirement, knowing that they have to allow a company to profit from their work or they're out on their collective ears.

The above is valid to a point.
I have left the longhaul/OTR/interstate transport industry for the very real reasons of (a) total lack of care for drivers' welfare, from owners, despatchers and customers; (b) very few companies want to pay anything over the award wage for drivers; (experience is worthless); (c) over-zealous transport inspectors/police who see truckdrivers as nothing more than criminal scum who must be fined for something, any time you pull them over; (d) the preponderance of half-trained ****wits driving at you (or passing you) who have absolutely no idea of what they are doing/carrying, and whose sole criteria for being in the industry is that they get to drive something with 600 horsepower and/or 700 LED lights, or preferably both.

I have been a heavy vehicle professional driver for most of the last 40 years. How come I get paid the same rate as a person who has just done a CentreLink funded course to get a licence that allows them to drive a B-double (or worse yet, a RoadTrain) at 90 - 100 kmh on roads filled with holidaying families, grey nomads and drug-crazed idiots?

These people are getting jobs because the transport companies don't want to affect their bottom lines by either training drivers properly, or paying a reasonable wage to an experienced driver. And don't start with the union thing, either! The Totally Worthless Union - sorry, Transport Workers Union, has agreed with bosses that, although a driver can (and is generally expected to) work up to 84 hours one week, and 72 hours the next, the poor boss is only required to pay the superannuation levy on the first 38 hours of each week. In return for supporting the bosses in that little effort, the TWU received an injection of quite a few million dollars from the Road Transport Association for a "training" fund. In that 40 years, I have never seen ANY training offered to the members of the TWU.

Try arguing about the social justice issues, as well as the strategic value of a well-managed heavy freight industry, rather than simply assuming that the band-aid of autonomous trucks is going to solve all these issues.