Thread: Big storm and no power in SA

In the past frequency control has been the sole stamping ground of big **** turbines, of which SA has plenty of its own. In the future though, large batteries and smart electronics will do some of the job. Example of what engineers are up to:

How batteries can stabilize the grid – German Energy Transition

As for SA "sucking" on anything, there is this thing called an electricity market, and SA buys power from where it is cheapest, and sells power when it had a surplus of low cost wind energy. This is how the market works, nothing to do with welfare. The idea that the states should all stand on their own is ludicrous, increased connection across state borders will make the country's power grid stronger.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Of course baseload is needed as part of a national grid. Like Qld, SA has gas but it didn't perform. It appears the wind was operating and didn't cause the shutdown. The two interconnectors to Victoria shut down when the loss of more than 20 towers destabilised the grid.
The answer is NOT to claim that any particular part of the grid caused the shutdown. The answer is to increase the interconnectedness of the east coast grid. That's why Friday's meeting included talks to establish 2 new interconnectors between SA and NSW. That was the single most important decision to result from the situation, I think.
Victoria's dirty old Hazelwood may be shut down as early as next year. That will highlight the need to abandon state rivalries and move to a national system, which will include increasing use of renewables. Tasmania already has 90% renewables. As more houses go solar and as battery banks fall in cost that renewable source will also decentralise the system.


Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

You do not seem to get the point, its not the renewables cause the problem.....its that they do not provide grid stability and are unable to provide baseload.....SA's baseload now comes from Victoria.....as Does Tas, the guys on the spirit when I was heading to Tassy earlier this year....with ute and trailer loads of generators to sell the the public after the basslink failed were all pretty happy, the costs, both financial and on emissions alone for that, far outweigh any savings, maybe if they did not stop the Gordon franklin, they would have the wonderfully, fully renewable, self reliant system that was intended

Do you even have any idea of the detrimental effects of "if/when" domestic battery systems actually become viable?.....we are heading for Chaos, its not all rainbows and blue skies, I can assure, this reliance on "green energy" is going to be extremely troublesome

My old man see's 50 years, most of which at hazelwood, next year...which is a whole different conversation, nobody ever mention the new EDP's they put in which heavily reduced particulates and emissions, new turbine rotors which improved efficiency etc......and everyone forgot about little Morwell power station, chaffing away for many years, which recently closed, also older than hazelwood, albeit much smaller capacity

The problem I have with you guys and your arguments, is, its simply shut it down, but there is no backbone, nor logical, viable, technical content into the resolution

Eastern seaboard has an excess of generation at baseload level......thats a good thing, keep in mind, PV did a lot for peak load from air condoning, think 10 years ago, A/C was a bit of a luxury, now its everywhere.....but that excess....when the peak of summer hits, is now well in the opposite, all them peaker plants rubbing their its together and all the load shedding that goes on......the eastern seaboard is way more volatile when we loose 750-1000MW, which is easily down, its only a unit at W and one at A or B......once we hit volatile weather and them interconnects are dragging on the ground from the "green" states, welcome to 3rd world stuff, mark my words

We need new

Coal or Nuc, that's it, to stay out of the dark ages, we are getting neither, lucky that we are shutting so much of our processing plants, that the consumption of the larger populous hasn't outstripped the demand for energy just yet

But boy will I laugh in winter and anything happens with the gas supply and we can't keep up...."I told ya so, hahaha"

And sadly Alintas Flinders Plant was one of the cleanest and we switched it off...

Not sure they'll ever get it back up either - they're demolishing it as we read this.

Agree with many points people are making. However, the BIG point is its a national grid - that's the future.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

Originally Posted by bee utey

In the past frequency control has been the sole stamping ground of big **** turbines, of which SA has plenty of its own. In the future though, large batteries and smart electronics will do some of the job. Example of what engineers are up to:

How batteries can stabilize the grid ? German Energy Transition

As for SA "sucking" on anything, there is this thing called an electricity market, and SA buys power from where it is cheapest, and sells power when it had a surplus of low cost wind energy. This is how the market works, nothing to do with welfare. The idea that the states should all stand on their own is ludicrous, increased connection across state borders will make the country's power grid stronger.

SA has plenty mothballed..

Wow, on a grid that has a population/consumption of how many hundred million for a given area?.....we are how many/kmsq?....

Solid state control works well, selectronics inverter chargers are bulletproof and the frequency control is perfect, but that's a completely different dynamic, to a common electricity grid, spanning such a large area

The idea that states should stand on their own, as you say, is not that, having your primary water source at the other end of the country, reliant upon large amounts of infrastructure, over many thousands of Kilometres, that are susceptible to many forces of nature, vandalism, etc etc, is not the smartest move

Oh and who plans to pay for it all? cause most of the states revenue comes from Pay as you go tax payers, which a lot work in industries directly and indirectly involved in these industries, only so much honey in the pot! haha

We as a nation are and continue to go downhill, but hey, atleast when the peaker plants are whizzing along on gas at anywhere up to $10,000MW, because we dumped baseload generators without a suitable replacement, I'll hopefully gain some more work getting it out of the ground

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Agree with many points people are making. However, the BIG point is its a national grid - that's the future.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

Where is the baseload coming from once you shut down the mud burners? thats the future!

Hazelwood was due to be mothballed in the 90's.....30 year lifespan, but, we stopped building new stations, Loy yang B missing 2 units.....then Flynn station, then driffield, all 10 years apart, all with better and better technology and efficiency would of seen us easily meet demand and shut the older stations

Another thing you guys need to realise, is that our population vs land mass ratio, does not really see the infrastructure and technology that could advance to any kind of smart grid easily achievable, nor viable

And links from germany, they don't mind utilising the Nuc's the french have got, but Shhh, don't tell anyone.....smart moves on immigration to I believe, maybe we should do the same......oh that's right, down the drain we go, haha

Originally Posted by rovercare

You do not seem to get the point, its not the renewables cause the problem.....its that they do not provide grid stability and are unable to provide baseload.....SA's baseload now comes from Victoria.....as Does Tas, the guys on the spirit when I was heading to Tassy earlier this year....with ute and trailer loads of generators to sell the the public after the basslink failed were all pretty happy, the costs, both financial and on emissions alone for that, far outweigh any savings, maybe if they did not stop the Gordon franklin, they would have the wonderfully, fully renewable, self reliant system that was intended

Do you even have any idea of the detrimental effects of "if/when" domestic battery systems actually become viable?.....we are heading for Chaos, its not all rainbows and blue skies, I can assure, this reliance on "green energy" is going to be extremely troublesome

My old man see's 50 years, most of which at hazelwood, next year...which is a whole different conversation, nobody ever mention the new EDP's they put in which heavily reduced particulates and emissions, new turbine rotors which improved efficiency etc......and everyone forgot about little Morwell power station, chaffing away for many years, which recently closed, also older than hazelwood, albeit much smaller capacity

The problem I have with you guys and your arguments, is, its simply shut it down, but there is no backbone, nor logical, viable, technical content into the resolution

Eastern seaboard has an excess of generation at baseload level......thats a good thing, keep in mind, PV did a lot for peak load from air condoning, think 10 years ago, A/C was a bit of a luxury, now its everywhere.....but that excess....when the peak of summer hits, is now well in the opposite, all them peaker plants rubbing their its together and all the load shedding that goes on......the eastern seaboard is way more volatile when we loose 750-1000MW, which is easily down, its only a unit at W and one at A or B......once we hit volatile weather and them interconnects are dragging on the ground from the "green" states, welcome to 3rd world stuff, mark my words

We need new

Coal or Nuc, that's it, to stay out of the dark ages, we are getting neither, lucky that we are shutting so much of our processing plants, that the consumption of the larger populous hasn't outstripped the demand for energy just yet

But boy will I laugh in winter and anything happens with the gas supply and we can't keep up...."I told ya so, hahaha"

Not sure I understand the different arguments, but how come Qld can survive a cat. 5 Cyclone without blacking out the whole State?

Originally Posted by bob10

Not sure I understand the different arguments, but how come Qld can survive a cat. 5 Cyclone without blacking out the whole State?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s_in_Australia

They help, Bob