Big storm and no power in SA

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I read that too. Didn't the loss of the 3 x 275 Mw lines shift the system off the 50 hertz level and it had to cut off the power flowing from the wind generators to try to regain stability, which failed, of course. A cascading series of events as parts of the system tried to protect themselves.

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Interestingly, it was the loss of the Heywood interconnector that cause the 50Hz frequency to drop to zero. The SA grid was depending on that interconnector to give the SA grid stability. That then tripped the two thermal power stations at Torrens Island and Ladbroke Grove. They lacked the capacity to stabilise the grid.
But you would know that had you read my earlier post.

Importantly:

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In time the engineering difficulties posed by wind will be overcome. Or they will be as long as people aren't burned as heretics for daring to point out the real and well documented problems with integrating new forms of energy into an old grid. And, if those who claim to be friends of renewables continue to respond to any criticism with hysterics, then they will be responsible for ensuring the budding renewable industry suffers irreparable reputational damage

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I don't know how many times I have to say this before it sinks in. Wind is only good for line regulation.

I am all for renewables but the right type of renewable power station must placed in the correct location to provide system stability.
And, as it is a private energy market, this must be done, and paid for, by private companies.

The 1MW geothermal pilot plant in the Cooper Basin was a success. They drilled down to some really hot rocks. A larger plant has the capacity to provide the stability the SA grid needs. Problems are it's expensive, remote and requires expensive infrastructure with high losses to get the power to Adelaide.
They did test drilling all over Western Victoria to site one. It's an ideal spot to have a large power station. Problem was they couldn't find any rocks hot enough.

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Originally Posted by rovercare

I personally sell renewable energy, I'm just simply not forming opinions on emotion, I prefer logic:)

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I assume you sell equipment mainly, not so much the free stuff that comes out of the sky. How many kW rating is the biggest system you have sold/installed? Currently, with another 275kV line back in operation tonight, wind is providing just over 1GW of power in SA, not unusual for this time of year... :)

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Originally Posted by bee utey

I assume you sell equipment mainly, not so much the free stuff that comes out of the sky. How many kW rating is the biggest system you have sold/installed? Currently, with another 275kV line back in operation tonight, wind is providing just over 1GW of power in SA, not unusual for this time of year... :)

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I'd say something like I have made a deal with Mother Nature and sell the energy that can be harnessed from her.....but ain't no man able to understand women.....if it was father nature, no doubt a deal could be struck...

Thats great, but it's not baseload generation;)

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Originally Posted by rovercare

Telling;)

I personally sell renewable energy, I'm just simply not forming opinions on emotion, I prefer logic:)

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So, you are TELLING me I have no technical knowledge on this subject.

You have absolutely no idea of my background.

You spout ideas from books that you have read.

And you don't sell renewable energy either.

I think you have an ego problem.

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Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

So, you are TELLING me I have no technical knowledge on this subject.

You have absolutely no idea of my background.

You spout ideas from books that you have read.

And you don't sell renewable energy either.

I think you have an ego problem.

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I don't need an idea on your background, I don't need too, to know that you are lacking technical understanding on the subject, read mick marshes posts, they are extremely factual and informative and written in way better words than I am capable off

Books I have read? Huh? I worked for powecor and silcar high voltage and electrical services, also worked for yallourn energy, I'd say it may have a little to do with industry exposure....books I've read? Bizarre

I don't sell the sun, nor the wind no...good pick up and my lack of England skills by bee_utey, humorous really:D

No ego problem, I'm not emotive, I just prefer people had their facts right

You still haven't told me, how you are going to provide grid stability?

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

Interestingly, it was the loss of the Heywood interconnector that cause the 50Hz frequency to drop to zero. The SA grid was depending on that interconnector to give the SA grid stability. That then tripped the two thermal power stations at Torrens Island and Ladbroke Grove. They lacked the capacity to stabilise the grid.
But you would know that had you read my earlier post.

Importantly:

I don't know how many times I have to say this before it sinks in. Wind is only good for line regulation.

I am all for renewables but the right type of renewable power station must placed in the correct location to provide system stability.
And, as it is a private energy market, this must be done, and paid for, by private companies.

The 1MW geothermal pilot plant in the Cooper Basin was a success. They drilled down to some really hot rocks. A larger plant has the capacity to provide the stability the SA grid needs. Problems are it's expensive, remote and requires expensive infrastructure with high losses to get the power to Adelaide.
They did test drilling all over Western Victoria to site one. It's an ideal spot to have a large power station. Problem was they couldn't find any rocks hot enough.

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Lets not fight guys. I'm learning stuff.
That geothermal information is interesting. If only they could get that happening it would be good for grid stability.
As I see it as a non-expert, its not about coal OR renewables, that is a pointless dead-end argument. Instead, its about a widening range of power sources, each with advantages and disadvantages, connected by an increasingly-interconnected national grid, with improved management on a national rather than state level. Do you agree?

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Discomick i agree with your non emotive summary :)

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

As I see it ............ its about a widening range of power sources, each with advantages and disadvantages,

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Bazinga!!!


The grid is just fine. It should be more local.
When you make it national, all sorts of problems, inefficiencies and losses creep in. WA has several grids.
That is not to say they shouldn't be connected nationally. That is all about selling cheap power to another state at a higher price. i.e. it's about the money.

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

Bazinga!!!


The grid is just fine. It should be more local.
When you make it national, all sorts of problems, inefficiencies and losses creep in. WA has several grids.
That is not to say they shouldn't be connected nationally. That is all about selling cheap power to another state at a higher price. i.e. it's about the money.

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Like $70,000MWh [emoji41] having seen the spot pricing at times it mind boggling.

The plant areas actually shut down at certain times as it's cheaper/profitable to pump power into the grid than to consume from it..

Yes, so wind power is cheap to generate once the construction costs are covered. Solar is also cheap once installed.
Household solar is about as local as its possible to get and battery storage will make that more true.
Gas prices seem to be affected by the oil price and by overseas contracts held by the gas companies.
In a national energy market the players can compete to supply at the lowest price. Isn't that classic free market economics?
If we don't like that, then it's back to a nationalised industry which doesn't operate on the basis of price. Is that what we want?